Toneboosters new plugins and updates

[Vortifex]

Edited

[mabian]

But I want to be able to change the gain of hp and lp filters (and I guess I am not the only one). It would be absolutely ridiculous to remove this feature. If you are to lazy to press the alt key that's your problem and not the plugin design is to blame.

Can you explain why you want the low/highpass filters to change the gain of the entire frequency spectrum (which is the behaviour that Burillo is talking about)? Surely that's what the mixer fader is for.

To combine the boost or dip with other filters bells ...? I can see it could be useful indeed...
- Mario

[Vortifex]

Edited

[Bouroki]

But I want to be able to change the gain of hp and lp filters (and I guess I am not the only one). It would be absolutely ridiculous to remove this feature. If you are to lazy to press the alt key that's your problem and not the plugin design is to blame.

Can you explain why you want the low/highpass filters to change the gain of the entire frequency spectrum (which is the behaviour that Burillo is talking about)? Surely that's what the mixer fader is for.

To combine the boost or dip with other filters bells ...? I can see it could be useful indeed...
- Mario

But you get the same result using the output gain on the plugin itself. I think I know why it's there - it's because AGC uses it. But I say ditch that for filters as well. TDR tried it and got rid of it when it quickly became clear it's unnecessary and doesn't work when all you want is to filter out some rumble and hiss.

[Electric Mayhem]

But I want to be able to change the gain of hp and lp filters (and I guess I am not the only one). It would be absolutely ridiculous to remove this feature. If you are to lazy to press the alt key that's your problem and not the plugin design is to blame.

But we are not talking about just changing the gain of the hp or lp filters.
What is happening is that the gain of all the other nodes is increased (or cut) when the hp or lp filter is increased (or cut).
If you are too lazy to use the output control to do this or even understand the issue that is being discussed, then that is your problem.

Seriously, please name another EQ where adjusting the gain of a single node affects the output of all the others
I would be very surprised if this is intended behaviour. I certainly never noticed it in Toneboosters EQ V3.

[djeroen]

I don't think we can remove the option to change the gain for LP and HP filters, because people might have been using it in their projects (and we don't want to break it with an update!). In addition, for dynamic LP/HP filters, the gain is intended as compressor make-up gain which is quite essential to have. Last but not least, the gain on a LP filter is quite useful if you do filter sweeps to make up for the strong reduction in loudness when you gradually filter high frequencies away (and vice versa).

Simplest solution seems to be a lock gain option, that will lock the equalizer section node to a gain of 0 dB, unless 'unlocked'. The lock will come on automatically whenever you select a low pass, high-pass, band-pass or notch filter. We've started experimenting with this and it works like a charm:

eq4.png

[Bouroki]

Just perfect! Thanks!

[spigmu]

Deja vu....

By 'disabling this behaviour', I mean the ability to permanently switch it off and not have to press the Alt key every time one wishes to move an HP or LP filter.

But I want to be able to change the gain of hp and lp filters (and I guess I am not the only one). It would be absolutely ridiculous to remove this feature. If you are to lazy to press the alt key that's your problem and not the plugin design is to blame.

Disagree. The point is that it intuitively is the reverse. Cursor alone for behavior one normally associates with moving a pass filter and adding alt key if you want to gain the whole signal up or down.

[BerryLaCroix]

Deja vu....

By 'disabling this behaviour', I mean the ability to permanently switch it off and not have to press the Alt key every time one wishes to move an HP or LP filter.

But I want to be able to change the gain of hp and lp filters (and I guess I am not the only one). It would be absolutely ridiculous to remove this feature. If you are to lazy to press the alt key that's your problem and not the plugin design is to blame.

Disagree. The point is that it intuitively is the reverse. Cursor alone for behavior one normally associates with moving a pass filter and adding alt key if you want to gain the whole signal up or down.

I think in 2020 a dev can't rely on alt keys being present anymore. Many of us work with touch screens, and on mobile devices (iPads, tablets) there isn't any alt key at all. I do like the forward thinking of the proposal by the dev; seems to address all scenarios and gives intuitive behavior

[pekbro]

I am happy to see some color picking available, I'd still like to see that expand. At a minimum,
I would like to be able to choose the color for the analyzer and meters.

[mabian]

I don't think we can remove the option to change the gain for LP and HP filters, because people might have been using it in their projects (and we don't want to break it with an update!). In addition, for dynamic LP/HP filters, the gain is intended as compressor make-up gain which is quite essential to have. Last but not least, the gain on a LP filter is quite useful if you do filter sweeps to make up for the strong reduction in loudness when you gradually filter high frequencies away (and vice versa).

Simplest solution seems to be a lock gain option, that will lock the equalizer section node to a gain of 0 dB, unless 'unlocked'. The lock will come on automatically whenever you select a low pass, high-pass, band-pass or notch filter. We've started experimenting with this and it works like a charm:

eq4.png

That would be perfect. No change in core functionality, so no loss of backward compatibility, just more convenient default UI settings to serving the most common cases for hpf and lpf.

Great, all happy now, right?
Thanks!

- Mario

[Electric Mayhem]

I don't think we can remove the option to change the gain for LP and HP filters, because people might have been using it in their projects (and we don't want to break it with an update!). In addition, for dynamic LP/HP filters, the gain is intended as compressor make-up gain which is quite essential to have. Last but not least, the gain on a LP filter is quite useful if you do filter sweeps to make up for the strong reduction in loudness when you gradually filter high frequencies away (and vice versa).

Simplest solution seems to be a lock gain option, that will lock the equalizer section node to a gain of 0 dB, unless 'unlocked'. The lock will come on automatically whenever you select a low pass, high-pass, band-pass or notch filter. We've started experimenting with this and it works like a charm:

eq4.png

This is exactly what I was requesting. Not for this (counter-intuitive) feature to be removed altogether, but just for a means of permanently disabling it. This solution gets my vote

This ->

Disagree. The point is that it intuitively is the reverse. Cursor alone for behavior one normally associates with moving a pass filter and adding alt key if you want to gain the whole signal up or down.

Exactly. Nothing to do with being 'too lazy'

[mabian]

This ->

Disagree. The point is that it intuitively is the reverse. Cursor alone for behavior one normally associates with moving a pass filter and adding alt key if you want to gain the whole signal up or down.

Exactly. Nothing to do with being 'too lazy'

Yes, but reversing the alt behavior would be inconvenient for all the other filter types, or, if alt would behave differently depending on the filter type, it would introduce UI incoherency, to be avoided at all costs in my opinion.
I think the solution Jeroen suggested is the best, and it gets my vote too

- Mario

[djeroen]

Well we can have the best of both worlds. We can lock the gain parameter for HP and LP filters by default.
If the user presses the modifier key for vertical movement only (which we already have), we lift the lock temporarily and you can move the section up and down - just like it was before

I suppose the gain slider in the controls panel is always active irrespective of the lock (also to allow a double click to quickly reset the gain to zero dB).

All in all this should be quite an elegant solution

[Electric Mayhem]

This ->

Disagree. The point is that it intuitively is the reverse. Cursor alone for behavior one normally associates with moving a pass filter and adding alt key if you want to gain the whole signal up or down.

Exactly. Nothing to do with being 'too lazy'

Yes, but reversing the alt behavior would be inconvenient for all the other filter types, or, if alt would behave differently depending on the filter type, it would introduce UI incoherency, to be avoided at all costs in my opinion.
I think the solution Jeroen suggested is the best, and it gets my vote too

- Mario

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.
My reason for quoting @spigmu's post was because I believe that he /she was talking in abstract terms about intuitive versus counter-intuitive design.
I don't believe the part about adding the Alt key to gain the whole signal was actually being mooted as a solution to this issue.
You have quoted part of my post out of context, omitting the part where I had previously stated that Jeroen's proposal was exactly what I was requesting and got my vote