Brainworx bx_console AMEK 9099

[bmanic]

Hmm, I guess Ploki feels that we're not getting his point about PA, which is odd because literally half of this thread (& every other PA thread) consists of him yelling at people. As always, though, we can count on an unending supply of needlessly aggressive and error-filled posts from him every time there's a PA thread.

I would have liked to actually discuss the new AMEK console (I like it a lot!) but there's no way of doing that when one person dominates these discussions with their constant irrational commentary. Thanks for making sure that we can't have a reasonable discussion here! You are truly a hero

Like it or not, he has very valid points. Especially new users who are considering purchasing the plugin and going into the ecosystem, it IS valuable forewarning that PA is very slow to fix problems and are not at all good at listening to their users when it comes to feedback.

This is part of the package that I at least personally value when I'm considering purchasing products from a company that I want to invest in long term. Having that information pop up in every new thread when a new product comes out isn't at all surprising either. In fact I think it IS helpful and valuable as it shows a good timeline of if/when a company has changed their ways and improved. This is not the case with PA to this day.


Don't get me wrong though:

I have a ton of PA plugins and used most of them on many projects over the years. Many of them I find absolutely excellent and very valuable. At the moment I am waiting for them to port the library to M1 Native. Once that is done, I'll happily start using them all again.

In short: I'm not a PA plugin hater by any stretch of the imagination but I do think a lot of the criticism thrown at them on various forums is more than justified. I even think it is necessary, if for no other reason than for keeping a time-line/record of their business practices which are less than stellar in my opinion (also derived from personal experiences with the company, not just hear say).

[beely]

It's the same old same old though - someone wants to get some user feedback about a new plugin they are interested in, and the thread is devolved into a 9-page rant about how much the vocal few hate the copy protection.

People do like to rant, but sometimes, all we wanna do is get some feedback on a plugin - and the 9 pages about how much an individual feels the owner is a wanker gets tiresome for the 14th time... we get it.

If you *have* to make the same point everytime PA is mentioned, just create a rant thread, and post a link to it, for the people that want to engage in that stuff. Personally, I do not find it productive, so it's just intrusive...

*Anyway* - back to the Amek. In a desperate attempt to bring the thread back on track, let's have a stab at guessing the full retail (over-)price when it drops - do we think $349 (like the SSL 9000 J and the other console strips) - or do we think because of the Amek brand, and the extra features of the 9099, like the EQ they're going to bump it to $399..? Or even more?

(Let's not have a rehash of PA's pricing strategies either, we *all* know this stuff and it's been done to death!)

[jasonekratz]

Hmm, I guess Ploki feels that we're not getting his point about PA, which is odd because literally half of this thread (& every other PA thread) consists of him yelling at people. As always, though, we can count on an unending supply of needlessly aggressive and error-filled posts from him every time there's a PA thread.

I would have liked to actually discuss the new AMEK console (I like it a lot!) but there's no way of doing that when one person dominates these discussions with their constant irrational commentary. Thanks for making sure that we can't have a reasonable discussion here! You are truly a hero

Like it or not, he has very valid points. Especially new users who are considering purchasing the plugin and going into the ecosystem, it IS valuable forewarning that PA is very slow to fix problems and are not at all good at listening to their users when it comes to feedback.

This is part of the package that I at least personally value when I'm considering purchasing products from a company that I want to invest in long term. Having that information pop up in every new thread when a new product comes out isn't at all surprising either. In fact I think it IS helpful and valuable as it shows a good timeline of if/when a company has changed their ways and improved. This is not the case with PA to this day.


Don't get me wrong though:

I have a ton of PA plugins and used most of them on many projects over the years. Many of them I find absolutely excellent and very valuable. At the moment I am waiting for them to port the library to M1 Native. Once that is done, I'll happily start using them all again.

In short: I'm not a PA plugin hater by any stretch of the imagination but I do think a lot of the criticism thrown at them on various forums is more than justified. I even think it is necessary, if for no other reason than for keeping a time-line/record of their business practices which are less than stellar in my opinion (also derived from personal experiences with the company, not just hear say).

I totally agree with everything you said. But it's always in the presentation. There is definitely a way to do it rationally and matter-of-factly. And furthermore, don't just make stuff up because it feels good to pile on.

In short, all for criticism. But lets be fair about it too.

[jasonekratz]

*Anyway* - back to the Amek. In a desperate attempt to bring the thread back on track, let's have a stab at guessing the full retail (over-)price when it drops - do we think $349 (like the SSL 9000 J and the other console strips) - or do we think because of the Amek brand, and the extra features of the 9099, like the EQ they're going to bump it to $399..? Or even more?

(Let's not have a rehash of PA's pricing strategies either, we *all* know this stuff and it's been done to death!)

Yes, $349. Seems to be the starting price for just about everything Not sure the brand makes a difference. I also expect it to follow the same slow price reductions over time, just like everything else. It's just how they work.

[pixel85]

If somebody really wants to know more about this plugin, here is a comparison/review video. This guy is very accurate in his videos (no sugary BS and tricks to sell us a product).

I agree with his conclusions even that he compares it to a product from another company that is equivalent to PA (even worst IMO) in matter how they 'deal' with critique and requests for bug fixes.

Ps. 1 if EQ is a 1:1 clone of their previous plugin I'm curious what else is copied from their other plugins (besides TMT and THD which we already know that are the same for all BX plugins).

[jasonekratz]

If somebody really wants to know more about this plugin, here is a comparison/review video. This guy is very accurate in his videos (no sugary BS and tricks to sell us a product).

I agree with his conclusions even that he compares it to a product from another company that is equivalent to PA (even worst IMO) in matter how they 'deal' with critique and requests for bug fixes.

Ps. 1 if EQ is a 1:1 clone of their previous plugin I'm curious what else is copied from their other plugins (besides TMT and THD which we already know that are the same for all BX plugins).

Paul's accent rules too. Love watching his videos!

[pixel85]

If somebody really wants to know more about this plugin, here is a comparison/review video. This guy is very accurate in his videos (no sugary BS and tricks to sell us a product).

I agree with his conclusions even that he compares it to a product from another company that is equivalent to PA (even worst IMO) in matter how they 'deal' with critique and requests for bug fixes.

Ps. 1 if EQ is a 1:1 clone of their previous plugin I'm curious what else is copied from their other plugins (besides TMT and THD which we already know that are the same for all BX plugins).

Paul's accent rules too. Love watching his videos!

A year ago I left Scotland (I'm not Scottish) so I feel sentimental while watching his videos) Wow, he is even from the same shithole where I lived. That Dundonian is something special

[Smapti]

Ps. 1 if EQ is a 1:1 clone of their previous plugin I'm curious what else is copied from their other plugins (besides TMT and THD which we already know that are the same for all BX plugins).

Here's the thing though. It's fine to dislike PA, and I guess I'll have to get used to the same people repeating the exact same complaints at loud volumes in each thread, but it would be much less frustrating if the same blatant falsehoods weren't also repeated again and again. To wit: TMT is absolutely not recycled from plugin to plugin. It's based on component-level modeling. For example, in the channel strips the TMT is individually modeled for each EQ, gate, compressor, etc, and this modeling is different in different strips because they are modeling different hardware.

I guess by the PA haters' logic, ALL analog modeling is "the same".

[beely]

Yes, $349. Seems to be the starting price for just about everything Not sure the brand makes a difference.

Well, Dirk bought the Amek brand, and subsequently Amek EQ topped the scales at the most expensive plugin they do - I figure he must be trying to get the money back he paid for the brand name, so...

I also expect it to follow the same slow price reductions over time, just like everything else.

Yep, of course - it all trends down...

I expect there will be an intro price, and a slightly lower deal price for people that own "qualifying" plugins, whatever they will end up being (probably including the 9098 EQ, as that's also the same EQ that's in the channel strip).

If somebody really wants to know more about this plugin, here is a comparison/review video. This guy is very accurate in his videos

I don't find this guy's content particularly compelling, personally, but each to their own and all that...

[pixel85]

Ps. 1 if EQ is a 1:1 clone of their previous plugin I'm curious what else is copied from their other plugins (besides TMT and THD which we already know that are the same for all BX plugins).

Here's the thing though. It's fine to dislike PA, and I guess I'll have to get used to the same people repeating the exact same complaints at loud volumes in each thread, but it would be much less frustrating if the same blatant falsehoods weren't also repeated again and again. To wit: TMT is absolutely not recycled from plugin to plugin. It's based on component-level modeling. For example, in the channel strips the THD is individually modeled for each EQ, gate, compressor, etc, and this modeling is different in different strips because they are modeling different hardware.

I guess by the PA haters' logic, all analog modeling is "the same"?

First of all, this TMT is giving a false impression that it's emulating real console channels. It doesn't. You don't believe it? Explain to me how in the hell, Iron Compressor has 32 channels!
TMT is not modelling anything, it's an algorithm that is randomizing given parameters, no matter what model of hardware this plugin emulates.

[pixel85]

If somebody really wants to know more about this plugin, here is a comparison/review video. This guy is very accurate in his videos

I don't find this guy's content particularly compelling, personally, but each to their own and all that...

I'm absolutely not surprised that you said that.

[beely]

TMT is not giving a false impression, but a lot of people do seem to misunderstand what it does. What it's doing is fairly clear to me - it's a randomised set of components with slightly differing values within manufacturing tolerance, which may or may not affect the sound and behaviour of the models.

32 channels on something like Iron is just like saying we have 32 individual units, each one very slightly different because of component tolerances - which happens in real life. Personally, for non-channel strip plugins, I feel it's not that useful, but maybe others love it... For channel strip plugins, I definitely like it (and we can control it a bit anyway.)

[Smapti]

TMT is not modelling anything, it's an algorithm that is randomizing given parameters, no matter what model of hardware this plugin emulates.

Since you are directly contradicting Brainworx's descriptions of their own plugins, you're gonna have to give me a solid citation for this. And no, other PA haters saying "well, I looked at plugin doctor!!1" or something like that is not going to be sufficient.

[beely]

I'm absolutely not surprised that you said that.

How so? I'm not really sure what you're saying here..?

I said I didn't find his content compelling - not that I agreed or disagreed with any particular point. I just find his presentation style a bit annoying, his tendancy towards comparing everything to Acustica products as if they are the holy grail, and I've never really got much out of his content. It's my prerogative to not enjoy his content much.

(And I'll take an Irish accent over a Scottish one, most days of the week.. )

[pixel85]

TMT is not modelling anything, it's an algorithm that is randomizing given parameters, no matter what model of hardware this plugin emulates.

Since you are directly contradicting Brainworx's descriptions of their own plugins, you're gonna have to give me a solid citation for this. And no, other PA haters saying "well, I looked at plugin doctor!!1" or something like that is not going to be sufficient. Please concretely explain how you know that Brainworx is lying when they say they modeled these consoles with TMT.

So you believe in anything that a producer/seller/trader is telling you?
I mentioned the example above: Iron compressor. TMT is not emulating any channels or different units. They worked with just one unit to develop that plugin (you can find it mentioned somewhere in a veeeeery long GS topic), thus they couldn't even compare if differences in TMT are accurate to different Iron units. Not to mention that it's Mastering Compressor in which such huge differences between units would be rather considered as an error.
But why I'm even trying to talk about it. PA lovers will never believe that PA could not be honest in their advertisements