Motorola DSP563xx Emulator (BETA) (Access Virus, Nord Lead, Waldorf MW...)

[starflakeprj]

Then this is illegal too.

You're right, and, I get your points. It's just so sad to see that none of the companies which did those great hardware synths ever did a soft synth version of their synths (maybe except for Novation with the V-Station). But, that shouldn't justify anything, of course.

I just wanted to get my point out, but I am really curious about how many who look at this as legal when it's actually not.

I do agree it's sad that that the companies haven't created a software synth of ther synths. Especially a couple of years after they have stopped the manufacturing of the hardware synth.

This could be a start for these companies to maybe start selling their ROMs, for use in this emulator, at a small cost, and creating a GUI of course. I would love a Virus, or a Nord Lead, official ones.

[recursive one]

The same people who would never use illegal copies of plugins, the same people who despises people who do. High-level hypocrisy either way, grey area or not.

At least in this case the synth is not in production for more than a decade, so I think it doesn't hurt the manufacturer in any way, at least not more than second hand purchases. (Edit: I was wrong, should have read more about what are synth ROM dumps and where they come from. Distributing and using them appears to be not legal as long as the owner of the original code didn't give a permission so yes, it seems to be no different than using cracks of outdated software. Moreover, TI2 is still being sold, I thought the whole Virus line was discontinued).

In an ideal world Access would license the emulator code from Numerouno who has done all the hard work for them and sell the whole package on their own. Maybe that would happen in the future, who knows.

[starflakeprj]

The same people who would never use illegal copies of plugins, the same people who despises people who do. High-level hypocrisy either way, grey area or not.

At least in this case the synth is not in production for more than a decade, so I think it doesn't hurt the manufacturer in any way, at least not more than second hand purchases.

This is usually not the case with plugins as cracks usually mean that at least a fraction of potentical sales is lost.

Im an ideal world Access would license the emulator code form Numerouno who has done all the hard work for them and sell the whole package on their own. Maybe that would happen in the future, who knows.

Yeah, that's actually a good point. But there are also old plugins not for sale anymore, it wouldn't hurt the developer a bit if people used a cracked one. But it's still piracy.

For me it's just a matter of principle. I just think it's weird how people think differently of this vs piracy (our of principle).

[gentleclockdivider]

Loomer architect controlling virus over midi cc

[recursive one]

For me it's just a matter of principle. I just think it's weird how people think differently of this vs piracy (our of principle).

That site with synth ROMs has been around for a while afaik. Should this be strictly illegal I guess it would aready have been taken down.

(Edit, no that seems to be strictly illegal, it's just these ROMs were useless without the original synths before this day that's why nobody bothered about that. Now the situation obviously changes)

[EvilDragon]

It is strictly illegal, but I guess nobody strictly minds it or wants to strictly sink legal costs into it.

[chk071]

I think that's the important point. To my knowledge, there is no precedent, thus grey area.

[Passing Bye]

For me it's just a matter of principle.

How do you stand on using unofficial software and hardware emulation of an piece of gear?

[PAK]

I just wanted to get my point out, but I am really curious about how many who look at this as legal when it's actually not.

It is legal! The emulator itself is legal. The issue, just as with arcade games, is the distribution of the ROMs and your right to use them. So we need to be clear about the two things as they're seperate and different.

For game roms the accepted wisdom (I'm not sure if it's actually been tested in law.. ) is the only true way to have the right to use those ROMS is to own the original hardware or license the usage of the ROM from the rights holder(s).

So, whilst it's a somewhat "grey area", for those of us who own Access Virus products, we've purchased the right to use the ROM code, and so (I think most would argue) it's, at the very minimum, morally acceptable.

If you don't own the hardware then, yes, you're correct.. there is no "grey area". You haven't purchased the right to use the code. So that is then likely to be illegal..

I do agree it's sad that that the companies haven't created a software synth of ther synths. Especially a couple of years after they have stopped the manufacturing of the hardware synth.

This could be a start for these companies to maybe start selling their ROMs, for use in this emulator, at a small cost, and creating a GUI of course. I would love a Virus, or a Nord Lead, official ones.

For that to happen there would have to be huge improvements in the quality of the emulation, especially in terms of CPU usage. At the present state of play what's there likely isn't good enough for many people to want to pay for it, and doesn't (yet) present much risk to these companies. But it is a wake up call.

My hope is that the companies would either do native plugins themselves, or license the right to create true native versions. Certainly an Access plugin would still sell, and remove some of the difficulties of trying to use plugins, over USB, with their hardware.

[starflakeprj]

If you don't own the hardware then, yes, you're correct.. there is no "grey area". You haven't purchased the right to use the code. So that is then likely to be illegal..

This was actually my point, but I assume most people here would happily use the ROM's even though they are not owning the hardware, hence the word hypocrisy I used in another post.

I think this is a very interesting project, and kudos to the developers, they have done an amazing job. I just wanted to illuminate the potential piracy when using ROM's that you haven't a paid license for. Not many people seem to acknowledge this as illegal. And those are assumably the same people who would never use cracked plugins.

[gentleclockdivider]

Not many people seem to acknowledge this as illegal. And those are assumably the same people who would never use cracked plugins.

I have zero , nilch nada cracked plugins yet I am using the virus rom
Imho there is a difference between the two ,when you are using cracked plugs you are not contributing to the further development of the software , iow you're financially hurting the developer directly .
When you're using a rom of a synth /video game that is no longer in production, you are not .
I am sure acces won't notice any difference in the sales of their virus range when one is using the (discontinued ) ROM

[starflakeprj]

Not many people seem to acknowledge this as illegal. And those are assumably the same people who would never use cracked plugins.

I have zero , nilch nada cracked plugins yet I am using the virus rom
Imho there is a difference between the two ,when you are using cracked plugs you are not contributing to the further development of the software , iow you're financially hurting the developer directly .
When you're using a rom of a synth /video game that is no longer in production, you are not .
I am sure acces won't notice any difference in the sales of their virus range when one is using the (discontinued ) ROM

So then it would be ok to use a cracked plugin that is no longer in development?

I know it's a fine line, but there is a line.

Not here to point fingers, just to bring this up for discussion. I wouldn't use it myself, but I don't mind if others' are using the ROMs "illegally". Look at it more as a social experiment, where hard and soft values are looked at differently by different people.

[starflakeprj]

And sorry folks, I should have started a thread in the Hyde Park Corner instead. Apologies

[recursive one]

What is the purpose of synth ROM dumps as such? People were making and sharing them before this emulator.

[PAK]

This was actually my point

I know. I was clarifying what was quoted to be clear it's about ROMs, versus the emulators which are legally ok. My thought was we don't want to end up in a place where, merely because the potential exists to load unlicensed roms, all talk is then verboten about the subject of emulators..

I just wanted to illuminate the potential piracy when using ROM's that you haven't a paid license for.

Unless a company officially declares something abandonware, or otherwise gives their blessing, it should be fairly clear that it IS piracy without a license, regardless of what sort of mind dance people do to convince themselves otherwise.

I have zero , nilch nada cracked plugins yet I am using the virus rom
Imho there is a difference between the two

Ok. But legally there isn't that ambiguity. You're using copyrighted software which you didn't pay a license fee to use.

when you are using cracked plugs you are not contributing to the further development of the software , iow you're financially hurting the developer directly .
When you're using a rom of a synth /video game that is no longer in production, you are not .

All of the Virus products were a direct evolution from each other, and the latest version is still sold. You can buy a Ti2 new. So it's a bit like arguing you can now use an old cracked Cubase because Steinberg don't sell it and only sell Cubase 11 now.

Also, a surprising amount of those old games aren't abandonware. Most of the big arcade companies still sell their old game roms in some form, and even some of the smaller companies license them through the likes of hamster.co.jp, which offers hundreds of these old games.