I Have an Uncomfortable Admission to Make

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

Smacking yourself in the noggin with an emoji doesn’t make your point. You speak of evidence and have produced none to support your assertion that you possess ears sensitive enough to tell software from hardware in an instant even within the context of a finished mix. You very well might have such attributes but you’ve not demonstrated it or produced anything to firm up your position. I would assume with such a statement that you’ve got a double blind test backed uo by some research paper you can quote. I’d be interested in it if you do. If not, congratulations on your super power. I’ll take your word for it. Jesus walked on water, and Mary has a child without having sex. Anything apparently is possible.

Just listen to "Delta Machine" by Depeche Mode. The band used almost all analog modular synths. Sure, the album is very minimalistic and you can hate everything about the band and the songs on the record. But if you're being honest, you can't deny that Delta Machine does NOT sound like a shitty plugin record.

Mic drop.

[christian f.]

Just listen to "Delta Machine" by Depeche Mode. The band used almost all analog modular synths on the record. Sure, the album is very minimalistic and you can hate everything about the band and the record. But if you're being honest, you can't deny that Delta Machine does NOT sound like a shitty plugin record.

Mic drop.

Do you really believe that if Depeche Mode used strictly plugins for the electronic/synth sounds it would sonically be a bad or inferior sounding album ?

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

Do you really believe that if Depeche Mode used strictly plugins for the electronic/synth sounds it would sonically be a bad or inferior sounding album ?

Oh, absolutely. When I moved into my current house I was in the middle of a super stressful project at work. I just didn't have time to set up my studio consisting of 20 hardware synths. But I still wanted to blow off steam by writing some demo tracks. So I used my extensive plugin collection to arrange the songs.

The tracks didn't sound horrible. But as soon as things let up at work, I set up my studio and reworked all the plugin songs using my hardware synths. The difference was night and day. And it wasn't an issue of using inferior plugins. I own almost every high end plugin on the market.

Because I travel a lot for work, I like to stay in my hotel room in the evenings and work on music rather than go out and get plastered with my coworkers. (I just can't deal with the hangovers any more.)

I keep a 49 key controller keyboard at my remote office that I take to my hotel. And then I use plugins to mock up songs. I will sometimes keep one or two distinctive plugin parts. But this is very rare. I almost always replace all the parts with my hardware synths. They just sound so much better.

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

It does when you’re just trying to convince yourself that you’re not a fraud.

I'm a fraud? LOL. That's rich coming from an unbearably pompous ass.

You just love to pontificate on topics that require no elucidation. it's clear you think you're some kind of intellectual. You might even be able to pass yourself off as one if you weren't so inarticulate. But hope is on the horizon. You can now use chatGPT to compose your forum posts. That way you can sound like the stuck up prig you've always aspired to be.

[zerocrossing]

Isn’t it clear that this post is from the poster to the poster as a way of convincing himself that he’s made the right choice when he’s unsure? He wants you to counter him so he’s got a chance to dig in even deeper. You’d have better luck converting the Mormons at your door to atheism.

this could probably describe 80% of forum posts. any forum.

True, but some posters are particularly loud and rude about it, like their whole identities are tied to it. They sound desperate.

I’ve been right and I’ve been wrong when those “guess the hardware synth” tests, but I never started yelling at people about imaginary differences. There are often real differences that are pretty easily documented, like if you start pushing Diva hard with oscillator sync on high notes, or compare it’s filter FM with the real thing, but that’s old tech. I can name a dozen modern plugins that handle those things just as well as any hardware synth in my studio.

OTOH, there are times when my software sounds significant better. I have a MFB Dominion 1. I love it, but it’s huge and it doesn’t really fit in my world. I went on a mission to see if I could replace my favorite patches with software. Some actually sounded better, though the wide range of filter modes on the MFB just don’t really exist in software, so the hardware stayed. All of my hardware is here because it does something that I can’t easily find in software, not because it necessarily sounds better. Sometimes it’s just the way it sounds, and not really about how good it sounds.

[BONES]

when people start cutting down other people’s choices as “crap,” it’s just stupid posturing, and mostly people talking to themselves.

So how does that help anyone? If every opinion is equally valid, how does someone know which opinion to listen to? Moreover, if you have tried something and know it to have been a poor choice, why would you not be critical of someone else saying that same thing was a good choice?

It seems to me that nobody really thinks about the purpose of a place like this, all you seem to want to do is express your opinions. When I'm posting here, my overarching concern is providing information that others might find useful, either now or at some future time. So if I think someone is giving bad advice, you can bet your arse I am going to call them on it, in the hope that, at the very least, they might explain their thinking so others can assign appropriate weight to what they have to say.

The first Uno had a bunch of bad demos made for it by IK.

That's interesting because the first batch of demos I heard sounded so good that I was extremely skeptical about them, thinking there had to be some level of post processing going on to make something that looked like it did sound so f**king good. So I waited until I could try one for myself and it turned out that those demos were completely accurate.

that’s more because I’m looking for specific features that are often missing from less expensive gear.

I tend not to think like that, beyond a few basic things. All that really interests me is how something sounds and I'm likely to be more attracted to something simpler, rather than something more complicated. I had way too much complicated in my hardware days, I have no desire to revisit any of that. That was a big attraction with SynthEdit for me - the ability to build something with all the features I wanted and nothing I didn't.

Just listen to "Delta Machine" by Depeche Mode. The band used almost all analog modular synths.

NO, they didn't. The songs are filled with guitar, piano and vocals, the synths are inconsequential. You could almost do that with One Ping Only.

The second clip has Teenage Engineering stuff sitting on an Oberheim OB, some Roland synth, an MS20 and a Korg Mono/Poly in it. The modular stuff seems to be there just for show.

you can't deny that Delta Machine does NOT sound like a shitty plugin record.

Neither do any of our recent releases, neither does 90% of the stuff that's made ITB. But Delta Machine doesn't sound like a "shitty plugin record" because it's full of other instruments and dominated by the vocals.

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

Just listen to "Delta Machine" by Depeche Mode. The band used almost all analog modular synths.

NO, they didn't. The songs are filled with guitar, piano and vocals, the synths are inconsequential. You could almost do that with One Ping Only.

The second clip has Teenage Engineering stuff sitting on an Oberheim OB, some Roland synth, an MS20 and a Korg Mono/Poly in it. The modular stuff seems to be there just for show.

you can't deny that Delta Machine does NOT sound like a shitty plugin record.

Neither do any of our recent releases, neither does 90% of the stuff that's made ITB. But Delta Machine doesn't sound like a "shitty plugin record" because it's full of other instruments and dominated by the vocals.

If you were actually familiar with Depeche Mode's catalog you would know that the second clip is a live, in studio recording of the band doing an alternate version of the song. The actual song uses all modular gear and none of the synths you see in the clip. I actually enjoy the studio jam because it's a bit more energetic than the album version.

LOL. "90% of the stuff made ITB doesn't sound like a shitty plugin record." i would really like to hear an example of this. Why don't you ride in on your unicorn and deliver it to me.

Here's a little piece of advice: Try not to talk out of your ass when it's clear you don't have a f-ing clue. You just sound silly and uninformed.

Check out the walls (plural) of modular synths:



Oh, and I never said the song is an instrumental featuring nothing but modular synths. Again, if you were actually familiar with Depeche Mode's recent catalog you would know that most of the band's songs feature guitar and of course either Dave Gahan or Martin Gore singing lead vocals.

[BONES]

If you were actually familiar with Depeche Mode's catalog you would know that the second clip is a live, in studio recording of the band doing an alternate version of the song.

You don't need to be familiar with anything, except the English language, as it's written down in black and white. But that's the clip you chose to share, so that's the clip I based my comment upon. That and the bits and pieces of shit in the first video you shared.

The actual song uses all modular gear and none of the synths you see in the clip. I actually enjoy the studio jam because it's a bit more energetic than the album version.

Maybe it's the modular shit that drags the original version down? If it's not making the song better, it's hardly an endorsement, is it? And let's be honest, DM's best period was when they were using EMUlators, in the late 80s, but that' not going to make anyone go out and buy one, is it?

LOL. "90% of the stuff made ITB doesn't sound like a shitty plugin record." i would really like to hear an example of this. Why don't you ride in on your unicorn and deliver it to me.

I posted a link yesterday but you were too scared to accept the challenge. You can always follow the link in my signature.

Here's a little piece of advice: Try not to talk out of your ass when it's clear you don't have a f-ing clue. You just sound silly and uninformed.

OK, so our last album only got to no. 2, what can you do, eh? It was very disappointing after the previous one had spent two weeks on top but we've moved on from that. It's a fickle business, after all.

Check out the walls (plural) of modular synths:

Yeah, they were in the other video. so what? It was some studio or other they used in the US to record the album. But if you watch it, you don't see them using the modular stuff, just a bunch of normal hardware synths and a smartphone. In fact, you see a note telling them not to touch it. It's a pretty ordinary song, though, and the sounds are very uninspiring. It is not a great endorsement for synths at all.

Again, if you were actually familiar with Depeche Mode's recent catalog you would know that most of the band's songs feature guitar and of course either Dave Gahan or Martin Gore singing lead vocals.

Again, I don't need to be familiar with their catalogue, I've known for many, many years that Martin Gore writes on guitar and that it was Flood who encouraged him to use it on Violator. But I am not much of a fan of DM. They have a few good songs but I stopped listening when they released Songs of Faith and Devotion.

[Big Mouth Strikes Again]

You don't need to be familiar with anything, except the English language, as it's written down in black and white. But that's the clip you chose to share, so that's the clip I based my comment upon. That and the bits and pieces of shit in the first video you shared.

I'm sorry, when musicians are pressing these things called "keys" in time with the music, that's a good indication it's a live take. I didn't realize it would be so hard for you to connect the dots.

Maybe it's the modular shit that drags the original version down? If it's not making the song better, it's hardly an endorsement, is it? And let's be honest, DM's best period was when they were using EMUlators, in the late 80s, but that' not going to make anyone go out and buy one, is it?

I didn't say that I liked the live studio version better than the album version. I just said that I like the studio version because it's a bit more energetic. Talk about black and white thinking. In your limited binary brain, it's apparently overwhelmingly difficult to understand how a person can like different versions of the same song.

Incidentally, if I had room for it, I would buy an E-II in a heartbeat. With its 8 bit samples and analog filters, it sounds fantastic. It's why those 80s Depeche Mode albums sound so good.

OK, so our last album only got to no. 2, what can you do, eh? It was very disappointing after the previous one had spent two weeks on top but we've moved on from that. It's a fickle business, after all.

LOL. Just like Adam and the Ants, you're the "Kings of the Wild Frontier." Don't let anyone tell you that No. 2 on the Australian Outback circuit is a joke.

[HOTF]

Hey Bones I just wanted to say i'm happy you found something you like . You know you don't have to feel some type of way because you had a pre conceived opinions about some things being better than other things. You can just like whatever you like regardless of the technology behind it.

[machinesworking]

You can just like whatever you like regardless of the technology behind it.

Heresy!

[HOTF]

You can just like whatever you like regardless of the technology behind it.

Heresy!

uh oh am i in trouble

[ghettosynth]

You can just like whatever you like regardless of the technology behind it.

Heresy!

Right, who is this guy? Like any old thing? GTFOH!

[zerocrossing]

You can just like whatever you like regardless of the technology behind it.

Heresy!

Yeah, it's all fun and games until you try to make a Cry Baby pedal using an actual crying baby. All of the sudden CPS is knocking on your door trying to take away your freedoms.

[BONES]

LOL. Just like Adam and the Ants, you're the "Kings of the Wild Frontier." Don't let anyone tell you that No. 2 on the Australian Outback circuit is a joke.

Actually, that would be a total joke but I was talking about the only chart that matters in our genre, which happens to be on the far side of the planet from where we live. It probably helps our cause that they are not native English speakers and that it's an industry chart, not a popularity contest, so things are voted on by people in the business (like the Oscars and Grammys). And it's not genre-specific, it's just an alternative chart. We've been in there alongside bands like Red Hot Chili Peppers and Psychedelic Furs. That Made of Rain is about a million times better than anything we've ever done is beside the point, somebody has to be there to take out the minor placings.