why they love to hate logic

[jon9091]

This is just pathetic!

I personally don't like logic or cubase at all, what works for me is Nuendo, you could certainly re-create all the stuff I do in either host and be just as happy though.Toby.

Wait a minute here. You don't like Cubase at all, but Nuendo is just great to ya? What are you basing this on? The color?

[AD80]

This is just pathetic!

I personally don't like logic or cubase at all, what works for me is Nuendo, you could certainly re-create all the stuff I do in either host and be just as happy though.Toby.

Wait a minute here. You don't like Cubase at all, but Nuendo is just great to ya? What are you basing this on? The color?

[Chickenman]

I'm basing it on the fact that I haven't used cubase for a while

edit: I just had a look.... they're almost Identical



Almost.

Dear Nuendo customer,

For those of you curious to know more about future releases of Nuendo, we would like to take this opportunity to let you know that we are, of course, working hard on Nuendo 3.

The new version will offer a large amount of exciting new functionality tailored to post production for film and television, surround applications and music production. As this new functionality requires extra development time as well as extensive Quality Assurance, Nuendo 3 will be released somewhat later than Cubase SX3. Nuendo 3 will, of course, also include all the functionality introduced to our Cubase SX3 product. As soon as a release date for Nuendo 3 is set, we will let you know immediately.

We would like to take this opportunity to thank all contributors to this forum for all the valuable input concerning Nuendo 3, which we are taking into account as we move forward towards the final Nuendo 3 release version.

Best regards,

Lars Baumann

Product Manager Nuendo
Steinberg Media Technologies

[meister eder]

What's so crude about Live4's linear sequencing? I love to arrange in Live4, it's quick and easy and - most of all - fun!

I think Live's linear sequencer is pretty functional but it's missing a lot of things. For instance, markers, key-command navigation, folders or folder tracks, grouping, etc. I'm not advocating adding these things to Live. I think its simplicity is one of its biggest strengths. I do miss some of these features though.

That's the interesting part about my experience (at least for the last 2 or 3 months): Being used to use all those additional features that you mention (as a Logic user), I really don't miss them when I arrange in Live. And then, I'd say that arranging a song in Live takes in averrage about 1/3 of the time it takes to arrange in Logic - for me. As you say, simplicity is one of Live's biggest strengths. For me there are other features it is missing, especially when it comes to MIDI editing and key-commands.

Complicated? Not if you set it up in the right way for your specific style of working - that's what Logic's flexibility is all about.

I'm still not familiar enough with Logic to really make this call myself yet. It does seem more complex at first blush but also more flexible and I'm willing to put up with increased complexity if it brings a lot of flexibility. Anyway, I listed this mainly because it's a complaint typically made of Logic more than a personal experience of mine.

I think Logic7 has adressed this point of "first steps angst" quite a bit.

It's too bad these threads always degenerate into pissing contests. I do think there are a lot of interesting distinctions to make among the hosts and I'm interested to hear more about how people work with each of them but it just doesn't seem possible to have a rational discussion on the subject.

Did you count my comments as pissing? I hope not!

[popsych]

Piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss piss pisssssssssssssss

popsych, still using Logic 5.3?

Nope. I'm not. I miss it like hell, but cubase all the way for me now. I refuse to give into their blackmailing.

Btw, someone is yet to adress the matter that apple seem extremely more prolific in developing software than they are putting hardware together. Why should you be blackmailed into using that inferior hardware by means of software; and please don't even try to deny the inferior hardware (especially value for money taken into account) unless stevie now has ultimate control (not to mention proprietary rights- CoreBrain TM -) over mac users brains

[DHR53]

Sounds like Bill has ultimate control over your brain... Dude!

[Chickenman]

Favourite movie moment ever....


Bill Gates getting shot on the Southpark "Bigger, Longer, Uncut" movie.

Cracks me up every time.

[Sascha Franck]

Sounds like Bill has ultimate control over your brain... Dude!

Actually, to me your posts sound like... no, wait a minute, I won't get involved in this stupid, sad debate.

[mauseoleum]

Wait a minute here. You don't like Cubase at all, but Nuendo is just great to ya? What are you basing this on? The color?

eh you missed the point. visit nuendo forums sometimes and get acquainted with the new breed of ubermensch - mac-logic-afficionados are total wankers comparing to these - nuendo league are adepts ... or shall I say Cubase LX users - rather not, I'm risking my testicles here ...

http://forum.nuendo.com/

may N3 and 2×opteron lead you in new world ... ouch.

[kuniklo]

That's the interesting part about my experience (at least for the last 2 or 3 months): Being used to use all those additional features that you mention (as a Logic user), I really don't miss them when I arrange in Live. And then, I'd say that arranging a song in Live takes in averrage about 1/3 of the time it takes to arrange in Logic - for me. As you say, simplicity is one of Live's biggest strengths. For me there are other features it is missing, especially when it comes to MIDI editing and key-commands.

I've had a similar experience with Live in the last few months. I've managed to produce a lot more actual music instead of just fiddling around and I've found I can get things done much more quickly. The main feature I've been missing is, somewhat suprisingly, freeze. Manually bouncing 20+ clips in Live really slows me down. Actually, there are three things I'm really sorely missing in Live right now:

1. freeze
2. aliased clips in the session view
3. the ability to record vst ui manipulation events as automation

Did you count my comments as pissing? I hope not!

No - sorry. That comment wasn't directed at you at all. You seem to be one of the few people here capable of discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the software you use without feeling personally attacked.

[DHR53]

Hmmm... where I come from a "wanker" is a bad guitar player... Must be a "Euro" thing?

[kuniklo]

Btw, someone is yet to adress the matter that apple seem extremely more prolific in developing software than they are putting hardware together. Why should you be blackmailed into using that inferior hardware by means of software; and please don't even try to deny the inferior hardware (especially value for money taken into account) unless stevie now has ultimate control (not to mention proprietary rights- CoreBrain TM -) over mac users brains

While it is true that you get more bang for your buck with a PC, especially if you shop around and build it yourself, the G5s are pretty competitive with comparable pre-built dual proc workstations from people like Dell and HP. The important thing for me is that Apple is at least roughly keeping pace with AMD/Intel for the first time in years and that a dual G5 has more than enough headroom to make any music I can imagine wanting to make.

So, yes you do get a better deal overall on a PC, even though I think the Logic package is a much better deal than anything available on the PC. The Apple equation is that you pay a premium on the hardware to defray Apple's software development costs. For me OS X and Logic are worth it. YMMV.

[popsych]

Btw, someone is yet to adress the matter that apple seem extremely more prolific in developing software than they are putting hardware together. Why should you be blackmailed into using that inferior hardware by means of software; and please don't even try to deny the inferior hardware (especially value for money taken into account) unless stevie now has ultimate control (not to mention proprietary rights- CoreBrain TM -) over mac users brains

While it is true that you get more bang for your buck with a PC, especially if you shop around and build it yourself, the G5s are pretty competitive with comparable pre-built dual proc workstations from people like Dell and HP. The important thing for me is that Apple is at least roughly keeping pace with AMD/Intel for the first time in years and that a dual G5 has more than enough headroom to make any music I can imagine wanting to make.

So, yes you do get a better deal overall on a PC, even though I think the Logic package is a much better deal than anything available on the PC. The Apple equation is that you pay a premium on the hardware to defray Apple's software development costs. For me OS X and Logic are worth it. YMMV.

Btw for all you Mac switch evangelists check out http://www.apple.com/switch/whyswitch/. 2 out of 10 reasons seem to be a Mac's compatibility with PCs (i personally believe that PCs are more compatible with PCs than Macs ) and the rest of them apart from reasons 2 and 10 just don't differentiate it from the PC. Even reason 10 is becoming much less of a concern with the latest PCs (seen VAIO's lately ?).

Almost all of the mac fans who bashed failed to realise that the main reason for my aggravation is the uncertainty my beloved host put me through which is mainly emagic's fault. Logic was one of the best cross-platform solutions, and i chose the platform i wanted. It just run. Now years of investment went to waste cause emagic were bought out. And don't forget, PC users were not the only one f**ed by this. I remember certain aggravated os9 users having to choose between their beloved vst's and an out-dated logic, or a shiny new system but none of the forementioned plugins. That does not inspire much in the way of bussiness ethics to me, just dropping your paying customers like that. Steve Jobs . . . Gerhard Lengeling. Burn in hell :p.

[kuniklo]

Almost all of the mac fans who bashed failed to realise that the main reason for my aggravation is the uncertainty my beloved host put me through which is mainly emagic's fault. Logic was one of the best cross-platform solutions, and i chose the platform i wanted. It just run. Now years of investment went to waste cause emagic were bought out.

I'm sure I'd be pissed too if I'd felt forced to make an expensive hardware switch to continue using my favorite hosts, so I understand the frustration. On the other hand, from a business and technical point of view the decision to drop PC support makes sense. Apple's followed a very similar strategy with their purchase of Shake.

The business logic of this approach is that Apple *needs* Mac-only killer apps to continue to sell their hardware. Most people don't care that much and would rather buy a cheap PC as long as the apps are there, but many will buy a Mac if that's the only way they can get Shake, Final Cut, and Logic.

The technical logic of the approach is that Logic is now very tighly integrated with the OS-level audio services and Apple can leverage this to improve compatibility and stability and give developers a cleaner environment and API.

So, while I'm not exactly trying to justify their tactics I do think Apple's doing what it has to do to survive in a very competitive market. Software development on the scale we're talking about is *extremely* expensive and you can either fund it the way Microsoft does by tacking on a windows + office charge on many, many relatively cheap pcs or the way Apple does by selling designer hardware at a premium.

Personally I think Apple's doing some very cool things in software these days and I'm willing to pay the G5 tax to buy in but I can certainly understand why other people wouldn't feel that way. In my ideal world I'd be able to run all this stuff on Linux but nobody's going to fund development of something like Logic on Linux anytime soon.

[DHR53]

Let me give you a brief history of my excellent DAW experience...

Bought my first PC: A Gateway with 2ghz P4 and XP home... Started familiarizing myself with Windowz, having been a Mac person for oh, 20 years or so... seemed pretty cool! As a matter of fact I thought I was up to speed much quicker than I thought I would be... So it was time to try out that Universe of software that I had been missing on the Mac! Whoo Hoo!

Bought Fruity for $99. and lifetime free upgrades... Nice interface (3.0 version at that time) slick program, I thought... But... then I went to the tech support forum for the first time! Dude! Having been used to talking to relatively knowledgeable (real people) on the phone for tech support (Mac software) I was pretty freaked out! Actually I started getting nasty hate mail responses until I turned that feature off, Ha Ha... I finally realized you had to figure that program out on your own! Never really took to it, though?

Bought Orion Pro! $99. too... Now that program I really liked! Simple: Instruments, mixer, playlist... Great Piano roll that let you keep making changes on the fly while looping. Basically I though the best program for creating music without a kybd. because the piano roll was so well done... Great for trying out VSTs too... seemed to run everything! Things sort of got ugly there around 3.7 to 4.2 but still a great program, and the one I would probably be using still if I wanted to keep jumping back and forth...

Had to get the KING... the program Mac users had coveted for so Long! Acid!
Great program, very intelligent, easy to see why it had become so popular! But... pretty limited if you actually wanted to make your OWN sounds... and loops! Which is where I was coming from... Although I'm a guitar player by trade, I've always had pretty good kybd. skills, and usually compose with a kybd... So I pretty much got bored with that quickly, and went back to Orion...

So, I was starting to amass a lot of inexpensive PC programs that together were starting to add up to be pretty expensive, and I still wasn't too happy with any of them... Although Orion seemd to be the closest... Since I didn't do much audio recording I was trying to concentrate on more hobbyist type stuff that was capable of bigger picture, but not a full-blown studio level program!

Then, I started thinking cross-platform... Since I needed to upgrade my Mac for my business (Design) I thought Hmmm... maybe I should see what I can do on the Mac, kill 2 birds... Not too many choices, so I checked out Cubase and Reason...

Bought Reason 2.0... Liked the interface, and was fantastic on the cpu, even my old G4 Mac, but I hated the program! Couldn't figure out how to use it, and though it was pretty much a waste! Moving on...

Cubase SL... Whoo Hoo, going to the big stuff now! Now this was a beatifull program! Looked really professional, and you could tell it was on a higher level than the other stuff! I quickly decided that I would have to have SX 1.0 though, so I went to that... Unfortunately, there weren't many plugs on the Mac side, so it was a little bit of an anti-climax... Still a great program, and nicely done and I was proceeding with learning yet another program, with the idea, of maybe going all Mac...

After upgrading to SX 2.0 bad things started happening on the Mac... The program was having a lot of problems with OSX, I couldn't get my PCR-30 working with a controller setup (Steinberg was revamping it's midi controller strategy) so things got ugly, and well... I was looking again!

Got a book on Reason, and decided to give it another shot! Spent about a month hammering away with the program, and the clouds lifted, and I was suddenly really liking this program, and the problems I had had with it, I had developed workarounds and a really good workflow to the point it was becoming my favorite program... VSTs or no VSTs!

But, alas, ...I kept thinking: all those great VSTs going to waste! I need more! My Absynth, FM7, Albino... how could I get along without these? So, I thought... If anyone can make a good DAW Mac program, Apple could! maybe I should try Logic? DP was not really working much better than Cubase on the Mac, so Hmmm... Off we go again!

In the meantime I had given my old PC to my wife to work on, and she hooked up a fax machine to it, so that was sort of out of the DAW picture... So I decide to build a new PC from scratch, just for the fun of it , and to see what i could come up with... Sort of an experiment! Built a really nice PC with an Asus P4C800-E board, 2 80 gig drives, and a 2.8ghz P4 chip in it... 1 gig of ram! Killer machine... Thought now this would rock for a DAW! But, unfortunately my kid was getting into online gaming a lot, so it sort of became his machine for Final Fantasy! (I know, what a waste...) and I got tired of trying to get in there and use the damn thing, so back to the Mac scenario...

Logic: My first attempt at Logic failed miserably... Could not even get an instrument to play! (pretty bad huh?) Hmmm... I don't know what I did wrong? Sent it back and got my money back... back to square one! Could have saved a lot of money had I stuck with it, though! When Platinum turned to Pro with free instruments, I was committed to making this Logic thing happen... Got a book this time, and voila! Environment conquered, no problemo! I'm on to Logic now! But... G4 that I was using for work, was getting hammered cpu wise! Argh! time for a new Mac... Now I could justify a better Mac for work alone, so it didn't seem to be a big deal to go to a G5, so onward and upward... Ebayed some more stuff, and moved up to the big time...

So, in conclusion: I still have some of my PC stuff (Orion, Fruity, and EXT), but I'm using the Mac for everything because of a considerable investment in a machine that benefits me in both areas, work and music! I still mess around with EXT and Orion, but it's simply a matter of convenience... and a long history with a platform that I have made a decent living with for 20 years... I like my Mac... I like my PC I built from scratch, although I don't get to use it much! My wife loves her PC (my old Gateway) and her fax machine... Were all pretty happy here with both platforms...

But that's just my experience...