Real amps vs modelling and plugin amps

[Uncle E]

Let us know how the Hotone ends up working out for you. There were some good tones in that video. If someone made Tonex captures of it, I’d use them.

I didn’t get great results from Variax or V-Guitar. True Temperament, OTOH, was perfect (aside from the price).

[Naillerz78]

https://www.guitarworld.com/artists/gui ... -challenge

IMHO people blame/praise gear way too much! Use what works for you.

Just watched the comparison video with Dweezil. Both guitar tones and performances were great! But I didn’t bother going to the reveal and I’ll explain why;

Yknow ..that particular EVH tone sound the modellers have been doing well for a long while imo. Usual Preset name - “80s Guitar Hero”

And id guess that’s because the original EVH tone is already approaching closely what I’d call that ‘digital’ sound, it being phased and hot rodded hard/ hi gain and very effected.

Id call it a “square “ sound. ‘square-gain’ or something. Does anyone relate to that or have I lost the plot completely. ?

I don’t know exactly what a phase 90 pedal does .. (I’m off to google ) but if it squares off the sound wave that’d be a perfect fit.

That’s the base character of amp sims Imo.
But that’s also my problem .. to me ALL the models have a little of that ‘square’ quality to the sound them , even without the gain. The clean and EOB tones also. Yknow? Even with just reverb as the effect or whatever .plus of course on top the aliasing fizz issues of the past.

Does that make any sense or am I talking out my a$$?
Also Unfortunately for me I can’t play a single EVH guitar-trick lick . Can’t tap or horse whinny and hate Floyd Rose bridges. so they are the patches I tend to skip. It’s not my taste or wheelhouse at all.

[Naillerz78]

DP

[YnJ]

I've played my digital Yamaha DG1000 almost every day since I got it, the lead tones you can get out of it are awesome. They even make profiles of the preamp for Kemper, which makes me wonder, why didn't the digital amp go more in the direction of having it's own sound instead of with different degrees of success profiling tube and solid state amps, as well as the few digital amps which actually went in that direction?

[Uncle E]

The Rocktron Pro GAP was great for these kinds of tones:

[YnJ]

All the Rocktron preamps were solid state, weren't they? Apart from the hybrids with a 12AX7 tube in them. Digitally controlled, not digital amps though

[Naillerz78]

This is my lil theory based on researching what it was about sims that annoyed me.

It led to me going back to reading about Tube amps vs Transistor amps.
Transistors amps were the first ‘amp sim’. Tryna simulate the sound of tube amps. But users weren’t happy . They complained they sounded harsh / had different distortion quality.

The physics of why that is goes into (afaik) distortion clipping types and also, importantly, odd-order vs even-order harmonics in the output tonez/sound.

People say about tube amps they have ‘warmth’/body/ depth of sound . What they really mean in audio physics terms is : tubes add even-order harmonics to the signal as it’s amplified from guitar , through amp circuit and out of speaker.

That’s what those words are describing. The even order harmonics add ‘body’ and ‘warmth’ to the sound.

Transistors can’t do this.
they add odd-order harmonics. Transistor tone people described as “thin “and “harsh” and caused ear fatigue as a result. Not good.

My theory is digital can’t do this either and has the same problem as transistors.
But know one wants us to know.

It’s a conspiracy basically.

A lot of threads and reddits I’ve read where a music producer is talking about using Sims.. they usually point out they also use a Tube unit pre or post sims, to add this warmth/body/depth to the sound.

Not sure how that works.. but I’ve come across that talk often from recording studio engineer types.

[YnJ]

I have both solid state amps, and now with the Yamaha preamp a digital amp, which disagrees with you. Transistors can add even-order harmonics when asymmetrical, and while I don't know how a digital amp works, harsh is about the last thing that comes to mind when playing the Yamaha though

[Naillerz78]

I have both solid state amps, and now with the Yamaha preamp a digital amp, which disagrees with you. Transistors can add even-order harmonics when asymmetrical, and while I don't know how a digital amp works, harsh is about the last thing that comes to mind when playing the Yamaha though

Ok . That’s good for you.
Just know I’m not sharing my opinion.its my lil theory re a limitation of physics from my research reading.
I am off to google re transistors adding EOH when Asymmetrical. I’m still learning . That’ll blow my theory. Danggg.

Afaik a digital amp turns a rounded waveform into a very close approximation of a rounded waveform but one that still has teeny tiny ‘steps’ to it. It is highly detailed but still squared if you zoomed in on it with a microscope .. kinda.

[YnJ]

Well, having said that, both the digital preamp and the solid state preamps sounds fuller when going through a tube power amp. I don't understand the aversion people have towards solid state amps though, I just find them slightly different and really like some of them

[Naillerz78]

I have both solid state amps, and now with the Yamaha preamp a digital amp, which disagrees with you. Transistors can add even-order harmonics when asymmetrical, and while I don't know how a digital amp works, harsh is about the last thing that comes to mind when playing the Yamaha though

Ok I just googled “ can a transistor add even order harmonics when Asymmetrical.” and got an excellent AI summary.

It says they can.
It also confusingly says ar the end this;

“Other Factors:
While transistors are often associated with odd-order harmonics, other components like tubes and transformers can also contribute to even-order harmonics depending on their operating conditions and the specific circuit design. “

I’m wondering , as it’s possible in class B design.. why this was not “fixed’ in transistor amps way back in 1980. It must not be that simple or cost effective perhaps. Does the cost go up to get it to do that?

Maybe it’s that transistors /digital can but only x number of. Vs tubes +transformers adding a big quantity of by comparison .(?)

[YnJ]

I don't know. The Orange Super Crush isn't very expensive and sounds pretty good, and I love the old teal striped Peavey transtube amps. I don't know how much they were new, they are pretty cheap second hand though

[Naillerz78]

I don't know. The Orange Super Crush isn't very expensive and sounds pretty good, and I love the old teal striped Peavey transtube amps. I don't know how much they were new, they are pretty cheap second hand though

What’s the quantity of even order harmonics tho JK.

It’s interesting how Peavey transistor amps came back in vogue as a kinda’ cult ‘ or ‘sleeper’ amp buy.
We did not regarding them very highly back in the day , as usually the stock studio amp in cheap rehearsal spaces. Aw man..I’ve got a peavey dude..bummer.

[Uncle E]

All the Rocktron preamps were solid state, weren't they? Apart from the hybrids with a 12AX7 tube in them. Digitally controlled, not digital amps though

Could be! I thought it was all digital but I was 16 when I owned it and there was no internet back then.

This one is all digital, it’s the Korg A3:

[Naillerz78]

Well, having said that, both the digital preamp and the solid state preamps sounds fuller when going through a tube power amp. I don't understand the aversion people have towards solid state amps though, I just find them slightly different and really like some of them

Boom. There it is. It sounds Fuller. Has more body and depth to it . Say no more! lol.

Well the aversion is the overdrive /distortion being harsh. Re the harmonics thing I went through and possibly cos they are more linear than a tube amp which is non linear (afaik)
Tube amps have a warm up period, after that they sound fuller, warmer and nicer. The sound kinda ‘melts ‘ with them.

The Roland JC120 is a classic s/s amp and has sold heaps.
I’d love a cheap 100W fender 2x12” s/s amp.
They sound great clean.