KVR Audio

Armadillo · Post by **Armadillo** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:52 pm

How generous. I might not use it ever but why turn down a great freebie

Ja.x · Post by **Ja.x** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:53 pm

jens wrote:... I doubt the option of the hardware argument - how many % of the users would be interested in it?

Aparently it doesn't make sense, I know. The price segment of Tracktion and Mackie hardware are completely different. But the interest of Mackie by Tracktion didn't seem to make sense either, and it happened. Where does it lead us? Maybe T2 will be a different beast, pricewise, for a start. Or maybe Mackie is preparing budget hardware. Or... whatever, who knows?

The big question is not the NOW, but THE FUTURE plans.

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:59 pm

Wow - how stupid that the keyfile gets eaten by my mail server.

You know I've used that email account to register every single computer music related product I've ever bought over several years and this is the first time an attachment from a purchase has disappeared.

Hehehehehe.

Since they warn you that it might happen it must have occurred a few times I reckon.

Caleb

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:00 am

Juanito-- it's not a sign of a critical thinker to blame your latency on the application rather than investigating all possibilities.

I can tell you this-- most (all?) apps will not introduce latency of their own. You say your hardware works flawlessly in Cubase, so it's not your soundcard or drivers. Which means that your pops and crackes and/or delay are at the config. level.

Greg

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:06 am

To clear things up, I don't mean to whine. I just want to be treated fairly. Give it away, fine. But make it so much more worth it to upgrade for those who paid.

I think I just over reacted. I spoke too soon. It really is genius on Mackie's part. I hope it draws hundreds of new users in. It also gets me excited that things are to come. Hopefully soon. As a company, you don't make moves like this for no reason, and Mackie aren't exactly newcomers to the game. So I'll trust what Mackie is doing. Bring on T2 then!

Koolkeys

TeeLangSun · Post by **TeeLangSun** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:14 am

I was half way throught signing up for the free copy when I got to the part about what I'm gonna use it for. It mentioned midi editing as a choice and I suddenly remembered how midi editing is implemented in Tracktion and I stopped midsteam and closed the window. LOL. With midi editing like that, I don't even want it for free.

jens · Post by **jens** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:18 am

TeeLangSun wrote:I was half way throught signing up for the free copy when I got to the part about what I'm gonna use it for. It mentioned midi editing as a choice and I suddenly remembered how midi editing is implemented in Tracktion and I stopped midsteam and closed the window. LOL. With midi editing like that, I don't even want it for free.

what would a thread about a host be without you f**king troll?

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:27 am

I don't get it.

It's a grid... you click your notes... or if you're a competent musician, you play them in real-time.

What is it that makes people think the MIDI is so horrendous? I know that sounds accusatory, and I don't mean it to be... but honestly, what IS it that's so disliked? Even Cubase has now adopted the same kind of in-track MIDI editing...

I don't mean to sound petulant, but I honestly don't get it. It's like one respected user once upon a time said, "I hate the MIDI" and it caught on like wildfire so that people who haven't even used it (I'm not saying you're one of them, TeeLangSun) are echoing the same sentiment just out of untested faith and belief that this opinion they've read a few times here and there is correct.

So... I'm making a track in MIDI. I double-click my track to get it to piano roll size.

I want a note starting on the first beat of the measure. I choose the pencil tool and click the first beat of the measure. I realize that I haven't made the note long enough, so I position the pencil tool near the end of the note and a <-> icon appears. I drag the note to an appropriate size.

I don't like the default 127 velocity, so I ramp it down a bit. Sorted. Move on to the next note. Adjusting the velocity might even have a shortcut that I'm unaware of, but if it doesn't, that's the only thing I can think of that I'd care to see changed.

Alternatively... I program a drum beat. The first variation is only one measure long. Whoops, each time I clicked, I used the B1 note as the kick, when I really wanted to use C1. Select one of the B1 notes, use the "select all notes with same pitch" and move them all up to the correct note, C1. I want ever second kick to have a lower velocity. I select every second kick and ramp the velocity down a bit.

I want to program my next measure's variation, so I put a clip over top of this one, which I can see through due to transparency algorithms... I want a triple snare hit where the single one used to be, so I click in the next 2 snare hits. It's meant to be a bit "ghosted", so I adjust the velocity of hits 2 and 3. Grab the whole clip and move it to where it needs to be.

What am I missing out on? What is it that everyone else is trying to do with their piano roll (which really IS a basic paradigm, so I don't see how it could be all that different) that I can't?

Step sequencing? OK, I grab ModuLR's Stepchild program and I'm sorted with 32 different drag-n-droppable pattern variations that I can play around with, and the velocity and all other MIDI parameters are easily modified by note, as well.

I've yet to see anyone who claims "the MIDI is horrible" who can back it up with anything substantial. At best, people don't like it because the clicking and/or drawing of notes is -different- than their host of choice, and when suddenly you need to single-click instead of double-click (or whatever), it's a flaw?

Rant over.

Greg

SuitcaseOfLizards · Post by **SuitcaseOfLizards** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:40 am

MIDI in Tracktion isn't "horrible", but there are things other sequencers have had for a long time that would improve it.. like ghost clips, or the ability to take a clip and loop it (I can loop audio clips, after all). Stepchild makes it a little easier but it's a bit of a bother to set up every time I want to use a kit with keys mapped all over the place instead of in a neat ascending list (like in some DR-008 kits).. or if I want more than the allowed # of notes.

No showstoppers.. just annoyances.

TheWall · Post by **TheWall** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:41 am

LM, it's actually quite simple I guess.

'Tracktion's MIDI editing sux' a mixed bag for lots of different ppl to express their needs.

Some need more true MIDI editing features. Some miss some kind of features that are not even related to MIDI. Some ppl hate the 'inline' editing style. Some ppl hate the color scheme. Some are not used to a new host different from their old habit.

They all refer to that as 'Tracktion's MIDI editing sux'.

unknown user · Post by **unknown user** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:48 am

This midi thing is completely hijacking the thread...but here I go anyway....

It's not that what's there sucks or anything, it's just that what is there isn't much....

Consider Logic Audio 2.0, circa 1996. MIDI can be selected/deselected/operated on by logical algorithms, graphically, and by editing individual numeric values within a list of events. This includes sophisticated optimizations such as thinning of controller data. I think it's just common for people to expect this level of control over MIDI detail in a modern integrated sequencer.

I think when people say "T MIDI sucks" they just mean that MIDI editing in T is very basic in comparison to most everything else.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:53 am

Fair enough, and thank you for providing an actual answer instead of a flame.

I'm unaware of advanced features because I use it as though it were sheet music. Therefore I only need a few things, and I suspect that at least SOME of the naysayers don't need the advanced features, either. I can enter notes I want, I can adjust their velocities. I can see why some of the missing advanced features would be considered a bad thing, though.

In all fairness-- Jules created an Audio sequencer and added MIDI as an afterthought because users seemed to want it. It was never intended to be a MIDI sequencer. Programs like Logic got their start with MIDI, and have had years and years to perfect it.

Does this change what people need? Not at all. If you NEED those MIDI features, no amount of explanation will make up for their not being there.

But with an $80 app still in its 1.x version, programmed by ONE man, it's pretty tough to expect it to compete with Logic Audio in terms of MIDI.

Looping a clip is quite easily done... just set your in and out markers and press the "loop" button.

peter_neo · Post by **peter_neo** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:14 am

I still haven't recieved my keyfile so I can register...............

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:17 am

Keyfile is instantaneously sent... it doesn't require an employee to send, and actually appeared in my mailbox about 2 seconds later.

Did you enter a Machine ID into the appropriate spot? They don't send a keyfile until you've done so.

If you've dont that, then I suggest checking your e-mail's permissions and/or trying a different e-mail account.

Toonyfish · Post by **Toonyfish** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:26 am

Has anybody used the Final Mix included in the download? I couldn't find it, if it is actually there.

Toonyfish

download of FREE Traction sequencer from Mackie's site