Tal J-8

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Set your unit like my screenshot, move Env 1's attack up and down while hitting keys. Over here, I am hearing filter envelope modulation, in spite of the fact that the Env Mod slider is set to "0". This is the VST3 version. What am I missing here? Cubase 11/OSX 10.14.6
J8 Env 1 issue.png

You have the filter velocity set to 5. Turn that down to zero. Does it still happen?

[Weasel-Boy]

Not near my rig now. I’ll drop the Filter Velocity to 0 and see what happens later. Still, the velocity setting should not introduce the filter’s ADSR modulation into the mix if the Env 1 mod slider is set to 0. They are two different things and should affect the filter’s response differently. I believe it is a bug. I sent an email to Patrick earlier, describing the issue but no screenshot or preset. When I get on my rig later, I’ll drop him another line with the materials.

[btfnk]

Anyone else have issues with the next and previous < and > patch buttons? On 1.2.1 and before it would always seem to skip a patch if you were on the first it would go to the 3rd. Now I'm on 1.2.6 and it's acting even weirder, jumping further than 2 patches ahead and freezing. I just had it completely crash Ableton from hitting the > next button.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Not near my rig now. I’ll drop the Filter Velocity to 0 and see what happens later. Still, the velocity setting should not introduce the filter’s ADSR modulation into the mix if the Env 1 mod slider is set to 0. They are two different things and should affect the filter’s response differently. I believe it is a bug. I sent an email to Patrick earlier, describing the issue but no screenshot or preset. When I get on my rig later, I’ll drop him another line with the materials.

I just checked here and confirmed. Velocity at zero means no modulation. Velocity >0 equals filter envelope modulation.

The original didn't respond to velocity so I guess Patrick had a choice: have velocity modulate the filter cutoff level, or have velocity modulate the filter envelope depth. It seems like he chose the latter. So it wouldn't be so much a "bug" as in "that's not how it's supposed to work" but rather a feature request (e.g. "I would like the other option").

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Anyone else have issues with the next and previous < and > patch buttons? On 1.2.1 and before it would always seem to skip a patch if you were on the first it would go to the 3rd. Now I'm on 1.2.6 and it's acting even weirder, jumping further than 2 patches ahead and freezing. I just had it completely crash Ableton from hitting the > next button.

If I load the default preset and hit next, it will jump to the Empty Vessel INIT patch and skip everything in between. But if I navigate to a preset folder and hit the next button, everything works as expected. Using 1.2.6 in Reaper, Windows VST2.

[Weasel-Boy]

Funkybot’s Evil Twin wrote:

I just checked here and confirmed. Velocity at zero means no modulation. Velocity >0 equals filter envelope modulation.

The original didn't respond to velocity so I guess Patrick had a choice: have velocity modulate the filter cutoff level, or have velocity modulate the filter envelope depth. It seems like he chose the latter. So it wouldn't be so much a "bug" as in "that's not how it's supposed to work" but rather a feature request (e.g. "I would like the other option").

Interesting but an incorrect choice if that is case...at least in my opinion.

Every synth I have (hardware & software) treats velocity to filter as a separate modulation source from that of an assigned envelope....unless an additional switchable pathway is provided to send velocity to modulate the response of a target envelope’s timing elements. Some systems let you target positive or negative velocity to attack, decay, sustain and release individually or globally.

That said, I’ve never seen a synth that permits velocity to override an envelope’s off (or zero) state.... thereby turning it on to some degree (and this is the important part) without influencing the timing (speed) of the A, D, S, or R components. In my book, the way this is working in the J8 ain’t right.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Funkybot’s Evil Twin wrote:

I just checked here and confirmed. Velocity at zero means no modulation. Velocity >0 equals filter envelope modulation.

The original didn't respond to velocity so I guess Patrick had a choice: have velocity modulate the filter cutoff level, or have velocity modulate the filter envelope depth. It seems like he chose the latter. So it wouldn't be so much a "bug" as in "that's not how it's supposed to work" but rather a feature request (e.g. "I would like the other option").

Interesting but an incorrect choice if that is case...at least in my opinion.

Every synth I have (hardware & software) treats velocity to filter as a separate modulation source from that of an assigned envelope....unless an additional switchable pathway is provided to send velocity to modulate the response of a target envelope’s timing elements. Some systems let you target positive or negative velocity to attack, decay, sustain and release individually or globally.

That said, I’ve never seen a synth that permits velocity to override an envelope’s off (or zero) state.... thereby turning it on to some degree (and this is the important part) without influencing the timing (speed) of the A, D, S, or R components. In my book, the way this is working in the J8 ain’t right.

I'll agree with you that it seems pretty unique and it's not what I'd expect either. I'd just hesitate to call it wrong is all. If Patrick intentionally designed it to modulate Filter Env Depth, then it's working as he designed. Changing that now would impact a lot of existing patches so I'm not sure if it even can be easily changed. Maybe a switch to change to a more traditional behavior, but then where? Frankly, I can live with it as-is. Lots of synths did quirky things. I can treat it as such here.

[Weasel-Boy]

I'll agree with you that it seems pretty unique and it's not what I'd expect either.

. And there’s the issue: unexpected behavior. As to “fixing” it, I agree, it would require a selection switch to preserve previous preset work. There’s no way around that. Either squeezed into the main GUI or sub-menued up on the menu bar like the SC button. Either way, there’s room.

[zvenx]

What would have happened with the monophonic, no velocity sensitive. Ladder filter with lowered volume with increased resonance minimoog, and so many other classic instruments if they were released in the time of kvr.

[zvenx]

......

Frankly, I can live with it as-is. Lots of synths did quirky things. I can treat it as such here.

Exactly.
Rsp

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Yeah, unless Patrick says, "OMG, no, that's totally a bug, that's gotta be fixed" then I'm good with it. I noticed the velocity behavior in the filter was more sensitive than some other synths I own, but worked with it without trying to figure out why. This thing has been out for weeks with lots of preset packs sold and this is the first time it's come up that I've heard. So people are ok with the behavior. Definitely more of a "quirk" than must fix issue IMO.

[Halonmusic]

Could still be a bug no?

[Weasel-Boy]

Halonmusic wrote:

Could still be a bug no?

To me, I think so, considering how dozens upon dozens of other synths deal with velocity modulating filters.

No matter, I’ve sent a detailed email to Patrick pointing out the incongruity and he can either choose to deal with it or ignore it. I’m OK either way as the J8 is the the only one in the pack that deals with the Whole/Dual/Split modes correctly, making it the only Jupiter 8 emu that behaves, output-wise, as authentically as the real hardware unit.

Edit: I received a reply from Patrick. He’s giving this issue some thought. Could add a bit more versatility at the least. Either way, I’m fine with it.

[Buckster]

Just tried demo love the service menu popout but can I ask is there a mode where each time you press a note it uses a different voice ? I found polyphonic same voice for same note and same for monophonic

Diva seems to use a different voice "circuit" each time you press a note

[EvilDragon]

It's not a bug. It's entirely legit to either do vel>cutoff, or vel>filter env amount multiplier. This is not the first case of that being done ever in a plugin (will investigate because I vaguely remember this being done in some other synths too).