Record: New DAW from Propellerheads

[bduffy]

Presumably the Line 6 stuff gets updated, and the Record versions will follow suit?

The Line 6 stuff hasn't been updated in ages, at least not regarding certain basic amp models. They were pretty much king of the amp modeling business just 1-2 years ago, these days only Logics onboard Guitar Amp "Pro" is doing worse. Licensing Line 6's stuff for Record IMO was a pretty bad decision. Sure, it's fine to get it thrown in more or less for free, but it's just not a serious competition to AT, GR, TH1 and ReValver. For me, being on the road like 100-200 days a year, having a proper virtual guitar amp (I do of course have several options of using real hardware at home) is a must (ok, I lived happily without any until some years ago, but that's how times are changing). Licensing something such as a (probably feature reduced) version of Overlouds TH1 would've been the best idea IMO, especially as TH1 is by far the most CPU efficient of the whole bunch, which would've been pretty much in line with Reasons general "paradigm". Not to forget that it sounds absolutely excellent and comes with its own IR loading cab module.

- Sascha

I'm curious: are you speaking of Line 6 software or both soft- and hardware? I've always found the POD to be infinitely preferable to any of the software sims, and am really glad they chose Line 6 for Record. Are the software models different(worse) than the POD models, in your opinion?

[getthere]

No offense to all you Reason lovers, but, I used Reason for two years, and the day I dropped Reason and pickup up Ableton Live and some VSTs...My music making career began. The rest is history. Nahh just kiddin. Reason is cool but, I can't put my finger on it. It just sounds thin to me.

I have gone back and listened to songs that I made with Reason, and the Mastering Suite, (he,he,he), and the comparison to songs that I made with Logic 7 and Live 7 are in another league.

I understand that there are a lot of factors involved that can explain the differences. Beginning a discussion regarding these issues would be a huge undertaking and would probably produce a lot of contention. So, like I said, no offense to those that think that Reason is the shit!

All that I am saying is that the day I discovered VSTs, was the day I considered myself a producer. This is just my experience however, and my opinion. So pull back the frying pans and take what I say with a grain of salt.

Maybe somebody could explain to me why Reason sounds so thin and sterile compared to other Music Producing Softwares. Somebody blow my mind!

Sorry if this has already been covered, I just didn't feel like reading all 75 pages. Sue me!

[Jeremy_NSL]

Hey,

AFAIK the software and hardware models are identical.

I'm curious: are you speaking of Line 6 software or both soft- and hardware? I've always found the POD to be infinitely preferable to any of the software sims, and am really glad they chose Line 6 for Record. Are the software models different(worse) than the POD models, in your opinion?

[bduffy]

Hey,

AFAIK the software and hardware models are identical.

I'm curious: are you speaking of Line 6 software or both soft- and hardware? I've always found the POD to be infinitely preferable to any of the software sims, and am really glad they chose Line 6 for Record. Are the software models different(worse) than the POD models, in your opinion?

That's what I would assume.

[Sascha Franck]

I'm curious: are you speaking of Line 6 software or both soft- and hardware? I've always found the POD to be infinitely preferable to any of the software sims, and am really glad they chose Line 6 for Record. Are the software models different(worse) than the POD models, in your opinion?

I'm talking about both soft- and hardware, probably with a little advance on the software side of things because you could always add another EQ or two to the scenario, something not exactly desireable with hardware.
Really, I find all the Line 6 models to behave rather undynamically (even if the basic sound is quite ok), something of key importance for my playing, especially when it comes to less than fully overdriven sounds. I should probably note that I own both a POD 1 and a POD XT (I don't even know where they are right now, that's how much I use them...), I (unfortunately) also had to play through their Amp Farm quite sometimes. Amp Farms Matchless model is the only one that I didn't find too bad.

- Sascha

[zion7]

No offense to all you Reason lovers, but, I used Reason for two years, and the day I dropped Reason and pickup up Ableton Live and some VSTs...My music making career began. The rest is history. Nahh just kiddin. Reason is cool but, I can't put my finger on it. It just sounds thin to me.

I have gone back and listened to songs that I made with Reason, and the Mastering Suite, (he,he,he), and the comparison to songs that I made with Logic 7 and Live 7 are in another league.

I understand that there are a lot of factors involved that can explain the differences. Beginning a discussion regarding these issues would be a huge undertaking and would probably produce a lot of contention. So, like I said, no offense to those that think that Reason is the shit!

All that I am saying is that the day I discovered VSTs, was the day I considered myself a producer. This is just my experience however, and my opinion. So pull back the frying pans and take what I say with a grain of salt.

Maybe somebody could explain to me why Reason sounds so thin and sterile compared to other Music Producing Softwares. Somebody blow my mind!

Sorry if this has already been covered, I just didn't feel like reading all 75 pages. Sue me!

yup exactly like me and all my other friends I have collaborated with. So, no offense meant people. Its just, I have heard this story way too many times and its true

[Sascha Franck]

That's what I would assume.

Yes, they are the same, the Gearbox plugin seems to be completely compatible to the hardware PODs, but using different preamps and converters makes a huge difference. Apparently their hardware converters are anything but shiny, to say the least.

As an OT side-tip: In case anybody's looking for something similar to a hardware POD, I highly recommend checking out the Boss GT-10. I just got one a while ago and I couldn't be more pleased. It's also a perfect companion together with a decent real amp (I just bought a Laney LC50, fantastic little thingy), as it's got a really neutral amp/FX loop and it's even got an amp control out, so my Laneys channels are switched from the GT-10 as well. And it's got the most comprehensive utility mode ever, so adjusting sounds to suit whatever setup globally is a piece of cake. It's got freaking whole lot more of amazing features, but I won't derail this thread anymore with going into the details.

- Sascha

[ModuLR]

No offense to all you Reason lovers, but, I used Reason for two years, and the day I dropped Reason and pickup up Ableton Live and some VSTs...My music making career began. The rest is history. Nahh just kiddin. Reason is cool but, I can't put my finger on it. It just sounds thin to me.

I have gone back and listened to songs that I made with Reason, and the Mastering Suite, (he,he,he), and the comparison to songs that I made with Logic 7 and Live 7 are in another league.

I understand that there are a lot of factors involved that can explain the differences. Beginning a discussion regarding these issues would be a huge undertaking and would probably produce a lot of contention. So, like I said, no offense to those that think that Reason is the shit!

All that I am saying is that the day I discovered VSTs, was the day I considered myself a producer. This is just my experience however, and my opinion. So pull back the frying pans and take what I say with a grain of salt.

Maybe somebody could explain to me why Reason sounds so thin and sterile compared to other Music Producing Softwares. Somebody blow my mind!

Sorry if this has already been covered, I just didn't feel like reading all 75 pages. Sue me!

yup exactly like me and all my other friends I have collaborated with. So, no offense meant people. Its just, I have heard this story way too many times and its true

http://blip.fm/~6cgro

Does that sound thin to you? Please let it play thru the opening part too... Might not be your cup of tea, but its all Reason. Doesn't sound thin to me. Sounds like someone who knows how to use his tools.

[bduffy]

I'm curious: are you speaking of Line 6 software or both soft- and hardware? I've always found the POD to be infinitely preferable to any of the software sims, and am really glad they chose Line 6 for Record. Are the software models different(worse) than the POD models, in your opinion?

I'm talking about both soft- and hardware, probably with a little advance on the software side of things because you could always add another EQ or two to the scenario, something not exactly desireable with hardware.
Really, I find all the Line 6 models to behave rather undynamically (even if the basic sound is quite ok), something of key importance for my playing, especially when it comes to less than fully overdriven sounds. I should probably note that I own both a POD 1 and a POD XT (I don't even know where they are right now, that's how much I use them...), I (unfortunately) also had to play through their Amp Farm quite sometimes. Amp Farms Matchless model is the only one that I didn't find too bad.

- Sascha

Interesting! Yeah, I'm only up to POD XT myself, but quite happy with it. However, I do acknowledge the "static-ness" of it, especially live; but I assumed this was shortcoming of amp sims in general. Never heard TH-1 live, but I sure wasn't crazy about it on the computer.

Anyway, just wanted to unpack that a bit, thanks! Sorry for OT, all.

[Cryogenic]

http://blip.fm/~6cgro

Does that sound thin to you? Please let it play thru the opening part too... Might not be your cup of tea, but its all Reason. Doesn't sound thin to me. Sounds like someone who knows how to use his tools.

The "Reason sounds too thin" argument always gets me

Btw. That tune was wicked cool. Yours?

[getthere]

No offense to all you Reason lovers, but, I used Reason for two years, and the day I dropped Reason and pickup up Ableton Live and some VSTs...My music making career began. The rest is history. Nahh just kiddin. Reason is cool but, I can't put my finger on it. It just sounds thin to me.

I have gone back and listened to songs that I made with Reason, and the Mastering Suite, (he,he,he), and the comparison to songs that I made with Logic 7 and Live 7 are in another league.

I understand that there are a lot of factors involved that can explain the differences. Beginning a discussion regarding these issues would be a huge undertaking and would probably produce a lot of contention. So, like I said, no offense to those that think that Reason is the shit!

All that I am saying is that the day I discovered VSTs, was the day I considered myself a producer. This is just my experience however, and my opinion. So pull back the frying pans and take what I say with a grain of salt.

Maybe somebody could explain to me why Reason sounds so thin and sterile compared to other Music Producing Softwares. Somebody blow my mind!

Sorry if this has already been covered, I just didn't feel like reading all 75 pages. Sue me!

yup exactly like me and all my other friends I have collaborated with. So, no offense meant people. Its just, I have heard this story way too many times and its true

http://blip.fm/~6cgro

Does that sound thin to you? Please let it play thru the opening part too... Might not be your cup of tea, but its all Reason. Doesn't sound thin to me. Sounds like someone who knows how to use his tools.

I agree with you. I make EDM. So, It may be perfect for other styles and such. Personally, no matter how hard I tried I could not make it sound as good as Live. Like I said, I'm fully willing to admit that if you know what you are doing, I'm sure you can make Reason sing!

Just not my cup of tea!

[headquest]

Licensing Line 6's stuff for Record IMO was a pretty bad decision. Sure, it's fine to get it thrown in more or less for free, but it's just not a serious competition to AT, GR, TH1 and ReValver.

Line 6 are the distributors for Propellerhead, so I'm guessing probably their stuff is thrown in for free as mutual promotion.

[headquest]

I have gone back and listened to songs that I made with Reason, and the Mastering Suite, (he,he,he), and the comparison to songs that I made with ... Live 7 are in another league.

I like your post and the way it is written - definitely no offense taken.

But as somebody who uses Reason (since version 2) and Live (also since version 2, and up to/including Live 7 Suite) I'll beg to differ with your conclusions.

Ultimately I think that fully professional results (whatever that even means!) are possible in either or both. And of course there are plently of professional productions that bear that out anyway.

I have produced finished mixes in both programmes. What interests me (and again, as you say, this could lead to a big discussion!) is that it's easy to tell which software was used for which track... and not because of sound quality, but because of musical style. The tracks done in Live do sound more experimental and whacky... but they also sound a lot more loop based, and the "results" of Live's MIDI effects are instantly recognisable to anyone who is as familiar with Live as I am.

I have pretty much abandoned Live after many years, because my songs done in it all sound... like they were done in Live. That's ultimately not a compliment. I guess when people say they recognise a "Reason sound", they mean that there are timbral things they spot. With Live though, I think that its unique workflow can lead to an identifiable approach to structure, with some obvious techniques that stand out as being Ableton-induced.

Just at present I am actually finding it very liberating to work in a wholly linear environment - mostly in Cubase 5, which has been a wonderful revelation to me in terms of composition workflow. Anyway, Reason is mostly linear in the same way, for what that's worth.

Sorry - completely rambling, so I'll quit while I'm ahead! Just saying - in the end - use what works for you. There will probably always be those who reckon your choices are wrong... and those who can spot exactly how you created something, and what gear you used

[ModuLR]

The "Reason sounds too thin" argument always gets me

Btw. That tune was wicked cool. Yours?

No, it's not me... it's a friend of mine who really knows Reason in and out. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't even use reason (lol)...

@Getthere, I hear ya... I'm just trying to make the point that Reason is still very capable, and possibly even more so with Record. The whole suggestion from Zion7 that you can't get a full sound with out some insane amount of complexity is misleading imo. It's a tool... and if it's workflow doesn't impede you, it's just as good as any other.

[zion7]

ill state this for the umpteenth time since some of you cant grasp what I said. Reason can sound phat with tons of work. I have states this before. I got a decent sound out of Reason too after a while. But it still didn't compare to my new toys in efficiency and overall power. The song posted, I don't get the genre but its def good quality. Well mixed. Sounds clear as hell. For lounge music, the sound doesn't need to be as huge as for my genres though. Hard to compare. But I can appreciate the production on this tune. Nice one.
STILL, to prove your point, you would have to show me a song he tried in Cubase or Logic that sounded worse than this. Likely, with VSTs, this song would be even phatter sounding.