Studio One 5 Available Now (5.3 Out June 29th, 2021)

[EnGee]

Use what you need. It's not a problem.

It is a problem, however, if Presonus keeps giving us the sweets but forgets about meat and potatoes.

Midi timing is awful after v3.3 + plethora of other bugs.

I thought they have made some improvements. I don't play very fast, but anyway I'm using Bitwig mainly nowadays. Why don't you use Ableton Live or Bitwig for midi (and everything else) if you still have problems in S1.
I'm keeping S1 because I might use it as mixing/mastering stage (or learning those with it). But mostly I will be using Bitwig for everything as I have most 3rd party tools and keep S1 as backup maybe!

[soulata]

I'm using Live but can't mix in it. I just can't.

Would prefer to use just one DAW.

[oneway]

Midi timing is awful after 3.3? In what situation exactly?

I only ever noticed it being an issue when routing midi between tracks and I stopped noticing that somewhere after version 4, so I’m assuming they made a few tweaks.

There are a few quirky limitations involving monitoring instruments when using a dual buffer which makes it sound like a timing issue (and only while monitoring an input on the same channel) but all the data is spot on...

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’d love to hear something a little more specific.

[soulata]

Midi gets recorded ahead of time for certain amount of ms. Between 10 and 16ms. So, if you play exactly on time it will come back as rushed.

Of course I can move files back in time but why should I second guess S1's timing. It might not even be the same every day for what I know.

This began after introduction of safety buffers or whatever. Can't be really turned off.

K

[jkez]

Midi gets recorded ahead of time for certain amount of ms. Between 10 and 16ms. So, if you play exactly on time it will come back as rushed.

Of course I can move files back in time but why should I second guess S1's timing. It might not even be the same every day for what I know.

This began after introduction of safety buffers or whatever. Can't be really turned off.

K

Yep. There is also great inconsisteny with automation- especially with MIDI cc. Automating a ramp with pitchbend sounds like a zipper (as an example with uhe Hive- it sounts buttery smooth in Ableton and Bitwig). The dropout protection causes more problems than it solves. Setting it minimum somewhat makes it better but still not as smooth as Ableton or Bitwig. Ive been fighting this since v3 since I have a few projects with people that use S1 but its always thae same issues. Things have been reported and noted but nothing got improved in this area.

They are adding many great features but there is always a "but"... and then comes a workaround and we lose alot of valuable time

[antic604]

They are adding many great features but there is always a "but"... and then comes a workaround and we lose alot of valuable time

That's literally true for every DAW

[soulata]

The dropout protection causes more problems than it solves. Setting it minimum somewhat makes it better but still not as smooth as Ableton or Bitwig. Ive been fighting this since v3 since I have a few projects with people that use S1 but its always thae same issues. Things have been reported and noted but nothing got improved in this area.

I think they've just given up on this. I've opened a few tickets but have given up as nothing worthy came back.

k

[jkez]

I think they've just given up on this. I've opened a few tickets but have given up as nothing worthy came back.

k

Im afraid so. Ive also sent many with no results.

[tonedef71]

Midi gets recorded ahead of time for certain amount of ms. Between 10 and 16ms. So, if you play exactly on time it will come back as rushed.

Of course I can move files back in time but why should I second guess S1's timing. It might not even be the same every day for what I know.

This began after introduction of safety buffers or whatever. Can't be really turned off.

K

Could Gregor's loopback test optimization tip assist with tightening up the MIDI timing by tuning the MIDI recording offset parameter?


I, myself, have not revisited this technique since updating to Studio One v5.

[EnGee]

Midi gets recorded ahead of time for certain amount of ms. Between 10 and 16ms. So, if you play exactly on time it will come back as rushed.

Of course I can move files back in time but why should I second guess S1's timing. It might not even be the same every day for what I know.

This began after introduction of safety buffers or whatever. Can't be really turned off.

K

Yep. There is also great inconsisteny with automation- especially with MIDI cc. Automating a ramp with pitchbend sounds like a zipper (as an example with uhe Hive- it sounts buttery smooth in Ableton and Bitwig). The dropout protection causes more problems than it solves. Setting it minimum somewhat makes it better but still not as smooth as Ableton or Bitwig. Ive been fighting this since v3 since I have a few projects with people that use S1 but its always thae same issues. Things have been reported and noted but nothing got improved in this area.

Is this still the case in v5? I haven't tried any automation yet, except volume which worked ok. That because I copied the midi files into Bitwig and continued there.

I believe the priority of mixing/mastering comes first for S1 (Reaper as well). For Bitwig and Ableton the early stages of using midi and audio are with a high priority.

Some are using Live/Bitwig then Reaper for mixing with 3rd party mixing/mastering tools. I find this a very good combo as you don't have to deal with midi in Reaper (which is not bad at all, but awkward little bit )

[jkez]

Is this still the case in v5? I haven't tried any automation yet, except volume which worked ok. That because I copied the midi files into Bitwig and continued there.

I believe the priority of mixing/mastering comes first for S1 (Reaper as well). For Bitwig and Ableton the early stages of using midi and audio are with a high priority.

Some are using Live/Bitwig then Reaper for mixing with 3rd party mixing/mastering tools. I find this a very good combo as you don't have to deal with midi in Reaper (which is not bad at all, but awkward little bit )

Yes unfortunatelly it is. In v5.1 theyve also broken sidechain PDC compensation. If you route sidechained signals to a bus and use any latency inducing plugin the signal doesnt get compensated.(but you can use it as a flam generator nonetheles)

I completely switched to Bitwig/Ableton combo for myself in june last year and all has been well.

I have s1 still for compatibility some projects with other people(clients) but with the last 2 we ended up moving and finishing it in ableton because of these issues.

Youre right the majority of their users use it in a traditional way and im sure it works for them, however in an electronic music environment it doesnt- to many inaccuracies and issues with MIDI and automation.

Actually their support staff are good.They were always fast to respond, but I guess the devs have to make a priority what to do/fix.

[EnGee]

Yes unfortunatelly it is. In v5.1 theyve also broken sidechain PDC compensation. If you route sidechained signals to a bus and use any latency inducing plugin the signal doesnt get compensated.(but you can use it as a flam generator nonetheles)

Oh this is not good! Although I don't use sidechain but I might be in the future in case of heavy low end is going on in the mix.

I completely switched to Bitwig/Ableton combo for myself in june last year and all has been well.

I have s1 still for compatibility some projects with other people(clients) but with the last 2 we ended up moving and finishing it in ableton because of these issues.

I don't have clients or partners, so I have more freedom than you switching back and forth. Currnetly, I have two projects (many more actually, but I'm trying to focus on only two), one in Bitwig and one in Live. I really feel happy with the two when I use them, so I'm trying not to choose between them for now!

Anyway, I wrote a feature request to Bitwig Support (viewing midi files from the browsers by free routing the signals to any instrument). They have answered me politely but didn't promise anything or denying anything, so there is a hope. So maybe this is will be the deciding factor between Bitwig and Live for me.

Youre right the majority of their users use it in a traditional way and im sure it works for them, however in an electronic music environment it doesnt- to many inaccuracies and issues with MIDI and automation.

Actually their support staff are good.They were always fast to respond, but I guess the devs have to make a priority what to do/fix.

Yes, it depends on how you use it really. I'm was considering S1 or Reaper for mixing stage, but recently I have purchased nice compressor/EQ/Limiter from 2nd hand market (done by TDR and then I complete the package with another EQ and Compressor from them), and those tools can be used in any DAW, so I might not need Reaper or S1 for mixing really. The only thing is I need to know which one of the four have the best PDC, Bitwig, Live, S1 or Reaper!

[BONES]

2) Applying different processing to left/right, mid/side, lows/highs

Especially the 2nd is a lot of fun and can transform simple sound into moving, breathing and colorful texture. For example, if you want to mono the low end, split the top end into right & left and add delay and reverb to them separately then put some stutter effect on sides channel and saturator on mid channel? With splitters that's very easily done on a single track.

Of course you could do it in a "traditional" way, e.g. by duplicating tracks and separating on each of them the part you want affected.

I cannot imagine a scenario where I would want to do either. Stuff like that will just disappear in a mix. Lots of people seem to enjoy overcomplicating everything, just because they can, but I don't hear anything in those sorts of situations where there is any overall benefit for that time and effort. I do things because they make the song better and, as I said yesterday, long before I'd feel the need to put different processing on the highs and lows or on L and R, I'd have ditched that sound and found something else that works without so much hassle.

It feels to me like people taking things that apply to recorded audio and using them in situations where much better solutions exist. i.e. When you have recorded drums, bass and guitar parts from a band, you might need to jump through all those sorts of hoops to get where you want to go but with synths you can address them at source by tweaking the patch. 99% of my mixing happens in synth GUIs, not in my mixer or with effects. Drums and vocals get a lot of treatment but usually every other channel in a mix has zero effects, not even EQ, if I can help it. e.g. If a bassline needs more bottom end, I won't EQ it in , I will play with the balance of cutoff, env mod and resonance to bring out more of the frequencies I need to hear and/or reduce those I don't want.

If you're making orchestral pieces, recording a rock band or string quartet, those things might be unnecessary or even "wrong"

Actually, I think it is the other way around. When an orchestral part has been recorded badly or isn't quite what it should be, you can't go and record it again, so you need to take drastic measures in your mix to fix it. OTOH, if a synth part is a bit dull or flat or uninteresting, you can tweak the patch or find a different synth that will do a better job, so you shouldn't need to do anything crazy in the mix. The more complicated your mix gets, the harder it is to get it right because you inevitably end up chasing your tail.

But for most of electronic music the sound effects & sound "trickery" are often as important or even more important than melody and/or harmony.

I don't think that is true at all, although it is certainly why I find pretty much all dance music to be dull and uninteresting. Good music is about ideas, musical ideas, not little technical tricks that the audience won't even notice. Pink Floyd are a good example because they wrote great songs and it's the songs that will be remembered, not the original studio recordings of them. You'll hear bits of production cleverness in lift muzak, it's not really anything that will make a piece good or bad.

And I'm surprised someone would say that such a tool is stupid or superfluous, but then I'm not going around forums ridiculing people that use notation editors because I don't see a need for them for my own music... So what do I know

Nobody has ridiculed anything, he just offered up a different point of view, as have I. You are free to take it or leave, just as we are free to do the same with your thoughts on the subject.

[arkmabat]

Can their free version host VSTs yet? Boy, it's been a while.

[THE INTRANCER]

Can their free version host VSTs yet? Boy, it's been a while.

No, but you no longer need to pay for the addon for the Artist version as it's included.

https://www.presonus.com/products/Studi ... e-versions