NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

[rasmusklump]

... and the people who smacked NI the most for this are nowhere to be seen now. So typical.

All I have learned here is that N.I. intentionally lied, as expected.

The things that were absolutely impossible, oh wonder, can be done now....

[EvilDragon]

The whole list is definitely not going to be kept alive. Service Center IS shutting down at the end of May, that is a given. This means those old products won't be authorizable anymore, but in great majority of cases, if not almost all of them, they have a more modern replacement. i.e. if you have Battery 1 or 2, Battery 3 or 4 can load the same stuff. Ditto with FM7 - FM8 has everything FM7 had and is a direct replacement. Ditto for Absynth 1-3, B4 (has B4-II which is unaffected by all this), and so on.

All I have learned here is that N.I. intentionally lied, as expected.

That is also incorrect, nobody lied intentionally. It's just that not all options were explored before the announcement.

[fmr]

B4 (has B4-II which is unaffected by all this), and so on.

B4 II "IS" affected by this. As is Pro-53 and Bandstand.

[EvilDragon]

They are in the list, yes. However Spektral Delay, Vokator, Pro-53, B4-II all have RAS2 version (basically the very last updates of all of those products are all RAS2) which is NOT affected by this announcement, as I mentioned before in the thread. The announcement only impacts products using RAS0, RAS1, RAS1.5.

Bandstand unfortunately doesn't have a RAS2 version (neither does FM7), but its library and patches are all directly loadable in Kontakt.

[fmr]

They are in the list, yes. However Spektral Delay, Vokator, Pro-53, B4-II all have RAS2 version (basically the very last updates of all of those products are all RAS2) which is NOT affected by this announcement, as I mentioned before in the thread. The announcement only impacts products using RAS0, RAS1, RAS1.5.

What do you mean with RAS2? May I authorize them with Native Access?

Bandstand unfortunately doesn't have a RAS2 version (neither does FM7), but its library and patches are all directly loadable in Kontakt.

It can, and that's how I use it, but if I can't get it authorized, I can only use it in demo mode

[EvilDragon]

Yes, you can authorize RAS2 with NA. RAS is just NI's homebrew authorization scheme that had a number of iterations through the years. There's 0, 1, 1.5, 2 and 3.

Ditto for Bandstand - Kontakt will authorize it as RAS3, just like any other Kontakt library that was previously affected by the announcement (but are going to work just fine now after things were sorted out in the back-end).

So, while you won't be able to use Bandstand plugin itself, because it's not RAS2, the content library can be recognized as RAS3 by Kontakt from now on. So it keeps on working.

[PAK]

Ditto with FM7 - FM8 has everything FM7 had and is a direct replacement

Everything?

FM7's easy left click operator muting was removed from FM8. Instead you need to mute operators by viewing the matrix and then right-clicking operators there. This makes muting elements more tricky, especially if you're trying to do it quickly during live playing.

Another change FM8 introduced is that NI migrated away from standard 0-127 MIDI program changes. So you can't just switch sounds quickly using program up/down buttons from your MIDI controller, as FM8 won't do it by default. Instead you must build MIDI program lists manually.

Not content with this extra annoyance and work flow slowdown, FM8 will then needlessly litter your documents folder by converting every single DX7 sysex bank you load into multiple individual FM8 format files, when all you maybe wanted to do was load in some DX7 sysex and audition through the presets quickly! On the plus side you can now categorize the sounds for these sacrifices. Great..

The FM8 GUI also divides opinion. Personally I hate it.

The GUI change was actually enough to completely kill my usage of it.. soo..

[PAK]

... and the people who smacked NI the most for this are nowhere to be seen now. So typical.

Err, it's only a partial response? Unless they only commented about sample libraries, what d'you propose they say? People are still waiting to see what the solution(s) looks like for apps/FX.

Re: Older sample libraries now tied in with Native Access.. Short of unlocking it's probably an outcome which will satisfy most. Which is good for NI considering the shot in the foot they'd have given themselves if users lost confidence in buying sample libraries.

Personally speaking, regardless of what NI does, it caused me to fully appreciate what challenge response actually is - Software rental masquerading under a different name.. With the rental period being defined by the time the vendor is willing to authorise. As a result I've decided I'll actively avoid C/R in future where possible. Massive X aside, NI haven't made products which interest me in a while anyway, and samples wise (for me, YMMV) UVI seems to be increasingly replacing NI's former role..

[EvilDragon]

Ditto with FM7 - FM8 has everything FM7 had and is a direct replacement

Everything?

FM7's easy left click operator muting was removed from FM8. Instead you need to mute operators by viewing the matrix and then right-clicking operators there. This makes muting elements more tricky, especially if you're trying to do it quickly during live playing.

Another change FM8 introduced is that NI migrated away from standard 0-127 MIDI program changes. So you can't just switch sounds quickly using program up/down buttons from your MIDI controller, as FM8 won't do it by default. Instead you must build MIDI program lists manually.

Not content with this extra annoyance and work flow slowdown, FM8 will then needlessly litter your documents folder by converting every single DX7 sysex bank you load into multiple individual FM8 format files, when all you maybe wanted to do was load in some DX7 sysex and audition through the presets quickly! On the plus side you can now categorize the sounds for these sacrifices. Great..

The FM8 GUI also divides opinion. Personally I hate it.

The GUI change was actually enough to completely kill my usage of it.. soo..

Well, horses for courses I suppose.

FM7 did direct program changes because it was limited to a single bank of 128 sounds and that's it. You had to manually load other banks into it. FM8 has the database and searching by tags which makes it much easier to use when you have hundreds or thousands of sounds. Plus it's also consistent with Absynth and Massive - they have the same program change lists... I really disliked FM7's preset browsing being split into 4 tabs.

Muting the operators switching from left to right click didn't bother me at all personally, although I can see that it might bother some. However it's a pretty easy change to get accustomed to. You'd rarely want to mute operators when you're not on a page that has the matrix, anyways.

And yes, I would say that being able to categorize sounds that you import is a tremendous benefit compared to how it was in FM7 (no categorization whatsoever).

On the flip side, FM8 adds morphing and more effects, which is definitely a very decent expansion on sound design capabilities...
I'm not sure how FM8 divides opinion. There are way way WAY more FM8 users out there than FM7 users.

[PAK]

I'm not sure how FM8 divides opinion.

You shouldn't be since that wasn't what was written. That comment was in relation to the all white GUI, which certainly is something which divides some people as recently as Massive X

There are way way WAY more FM8 users out there than FM7 users.

Probably, not least considering it was never 64 bit.. Though (DX7 wise) people would probably look to deXed or Arturia for that these days. The way FM7/8 implemented the envelopes was great though..

[EvilDragon]

Ah right, the GUI. I guess some might dislike the white, I suppose.

I wonder how come nobody ever explored resource hacking the executables, it's mostly raster graphics based, could easily make it darker I bet.

Though (DX7 wise) people would probably look to deXed or Arturia for that these days.

Agreed!

The way FM7/8 implemented the envelopes was great though..

A hundred times agreed!

[chk071]

Personally speaking, regardless of what NI does, it caused me to fully appreciate what challenge response actually is - Software rental masquerading under a different name..

Sorry, but I totally disagree. To say it nicely.

Anyway, what I actually wanted to say above is that some will never be satisfied. No matter what NI or anyone else does.

[vurt]

Personally speaking, regardless of what NI does, it caused me to fully appreciate what challenge response actually is - Software rental masquerading under a different name..

Sorry, but I totally disagree. To say it nicely.

Anyway, what I actually wanted to say above is that some will never be satisfied. No matter what NI or anyone else does.

they eat kittens in the meetings instead of biscuits.

[TheMaestro]

Personally speaking, regardless of what NI does, it caused me to fully appreciate what challenge response actually is - Software rental masquerading under a different name..

Anyway, what I actually wanted to say above is that some will never be satisfied. No matter what NI or anyone else does.

And? As long as what NI does now doesn’t explode in the same user outrage, they did quite good.

And what users complained about and NI’s response is a million times better than your and EvilDragon’s suggestion about what the users should do and accept. So pipe down.

[EvilDragon]

Which exact suggestion of mine do you mean?