All new MacPros are quads!!

[keyman_sam]

So, all your bullshit talking is because of only a single point : PRICE. Engineers and professionals make enough money that buying macs vs PC is like cheap change for them. So your point is pretty much mute.


On the other hand, if you DO consider the advantages of mac, one of them would be :
1). Choice of software. Try running logic pro 7 in your PeeCee. Dont ask why everyone doesnt use Orion. DOnt make me laugh now. When i went to your website, i noticed that you do everything in orion. absolutely everything. Really, i'd like to ask you something : Whats your point? Are you trying to desperately come off as being one of those "cool kids" who are so talented that they can produce wonderful music with just cheap software?


OTOH, i'd really like to listen to your music, out of curiousity.

[egbert]

On the other hand, if you DO consider the advantages of mac, one of them would be :
1). Choice of software. Try running logic pro 7 in your PeeCee.

Surely you don't actually mean "choice of software" since the choice is much more extensive on PC - as it would be on any format that had 95 percent market share.

Perhaps you just mean that the Mac offers Logic and if you really want Logic then it has to be Mac - and if that is your "choice" then you would go with the Mac.

BTW - as a Logic 5 PC licence holder this situation doesn't incline me favourably to the Mac.

[pdxindy]

On the other hand, if you DO consider the advantages of mac, one of them would be :
1). Choice of software. Try running logic pro 7 in your PeeCee.

Surely you don't actually mean "choice of software" since the choice is much more extensive on PC - as it would be on any format that had 95 percent market share.

Perhaps you just mean that the Mac offers Logic and if you really want Logic then it has to be Mac - and if that is your "choice" then you would go with the Mac.

BTW - as a Logic 5 PC licence holder this situation doesn't incline me favourably to the Mac.

Software choice is a valid reason. Logic is a unique software environment and lots of people use and like it. Same for Final Cut Pro. A group of us who do video production together, are all invested in Final Cut. It is a great program, and bundled with Soundtrack Pro and Motion, it is incredibly powerful and easy to use. It is a unique set of tools not available on PC. They integrate so well together.

Sure there is more software on the PC, but if the software you want to use is on a Mac, then that is a valid reason to get a Mac. A few Mac haters want to say that anyone who gets a Mac is just an idiot, and that position is absurd. Macs have value and PCs have value. Some people are not obsessed with the tool and are focused on what they are trying to accomplish with it.

[machinesworking]

Perhaps you just mean that the Mac offers Logic and if you really want Logic then it has to be Mac - and if that is your "choice" then you would go with the Mac.

BTW - as a Logic 5 PC licence holder this situation doesn't incline me favourably to the Mac.

On the one hand I think you have a reason to feel miffed, nobody likes a corporate takeover that forces integration into an environment that might not give them the other tools they use, (windows only plug ins etc. ), the former Netscape emplyees attitude about Microsoft scenario comes to mind.

On the other, Apple didn't kill Logic 5, or do anything that any company that is competing for market share doesn't do. It's the nature of business, and blaming Apple, or Microsoft, or any competing company for doing whatever it takes, legally, to make money, is silly.

I've said it before, if Microsoft, or Sony, or Sonar, bought Ableton Live, and discontinued OSX support, I would simply get a PC laptop, and continue to use the DAW I like.

OK OK I might be pissed at first, but years later?

[Ubiety]

With the new Macs one can run any OS that they like. Mac OS X (Unix based), Windows, Unix and Linux. What be the problem? Clearly the software choice advantage belongs to the Mac. And as an added bonus people won't be locked into those pesky and contrived licenses that Dell issues with its PCs that forbids the owner of using any other OS other than Windows.

[BONES]

So don't buy Dell. for the rest of my response to your illconsidered point, see below.

So, all your bullshit talking is because of only a single point : PRICE. Engineers and professionals make enough money that buying macs vs PC is like cheap change for them. So your point is pretty much mute.

The word is "moot" and if you read the threads you'll see that pricing was the main cut and thrust of most of it from everyone. After all, the only other difference nowadays is the OS, all the bits come from the same places.

On the other hand, if you DO consider the advantages of mac, one of them would be :
1). Choice of software. Try running logic pro 7 in your PeeCee.

You really are a dunce. Try running Sonar or Orion or FL Studio or Project 5 or EnergyXT or Synthedit or SynthMaker or any one of a hundred other things I could name if I thought about it for a minute on MacOS. And don't give me this ridiculous garbage about Boot Camp because the first time you're in the middle of something in Logic and realise you want to use EnergyXt for just this little bit, you will see how long it takes you to reboot into Windoze, do the thing, render it out or save it as a MIDI file or whatever it where it can be found by the other OS and then reboot back into MacOS, restart Logic, reload the project you're working on, locate the file you rendered out or saved and then load it into Logic. Believe me, anyone who thinks they can use both OS's on one box is kidding themself. I've tried it over and over again with Linux and in the end its just way more effort than its worth.

When i went to your website, i noticed that you do everything in orion. absolutely everything. Really, i'd like to ask you something : Whats your point?

And you get even dumber. The point is efficiency. I can't believe that anyone can ever get anything done by jumpin garound from one thing to another. It surely shows that either they have no idea how to use the tools they have or those tools are inadequate to the task. Before I found ORION I did everything in Fruityloops, before that I did everything in Trinity's sequencer, and on and on back to the early 80's, before MIDI, when yes, I had to use two sequencers, both TB303's. Using multiple sequencers/hosts just makes things far more complex than they need to be and reduces your ability to get things right. And, for the record, we do quite a bit of editing and all our recording with Cool edit 2000, something else that won't run on MacOS.

OTOH, i'd really like to listen to your music, out of curiousity.

Well, if you have a credit card you can buy them from most on-line CD stores or order 'em in at your local, assuming you live in the US or Europe.
BTW, where's point "2)"? I thought you actually had multiple reasons.

On the other, Apple didn't kill Logic 5, or do anything that any company that is competing for market share doesn't do. It's the nature of business, and blaming Apple, or Microsoft, or any competing company for doing whatever it takes, legally, to make money, is silly.

No, condoning that sort of treatment and justifying it as "just doing business" in unconscionable. Letting them get away with it, by doing exactly what they want you to, just ensures that it will happen again and again.

[machinesworking]

On the other, Apple didn't kill Logic 5, or do anything that any company that is competing for market share doesn't do. It's the nature of business, and blaming Apple, or Microsoft, or any competing company for doing whatever it takes, legally, to make money, is silly.

No, condoning that sort of treatment and justifying it as "just doing business" in unconscionable. Letting them get away with it, by doing exactly what they want you to, just ensures that it will happen again and again.

Hey. at least it's legal, and really, how could you make buying up the competition illegal?
You on the other hand, routinely give money to a corporation that has flat out stolen major parts of their OS code, leveraged their monopoly to wipe out the competition, introduced supposed standards that work best only with their OS, and bought their way out of court when it all came down on them, every time you instal XP. You already are apart of the biggest baddest least ethical corporation in the software industry, yet every time Apple comes up you run in like it's your sworn duty to inform people of the unholiness that awaits them. You argue in terms of the value of roll your own PC's and I'm with you, great idea. You argue that Apple are somehow worse than Microsoft, I think you choose to ignore the facts then.
If you were to break it down Microsoft play by the rules less than any other company out there, yet you and others spend countless hours any time Apple comes up on these boards dogging Apple like it was somehow worse?... if you want pure intent, then Linux is the only choice, otherwise it's the same old silly arguments.

[glaucomys]

I am not a Mac hater, I use them happily when I have to. If someone could show me why they make a valid choice I'd be happy as Larry.

Who is Larry? - they are a valid choice. I made the choice, if you are telling me my logic is not valid, as I would expect, then take you meds...

In fact when averyone started say ing how competitively priced te new MacBooks were I thought nothing of it. it wasn't until I looked for myself and found out that they were anything but that I got involved in this at all. And after three threads and maybe 30 pages I am still yet to see evidence, across a broad base, to the contrary. Sure, there are very specific cases where you can buy an Apple computer at a comparable price to another brand but overall its just so far from reality that it isn't funny.

Spend all your time clipping coupons and specing shit out, some people like to get their work done with a nice OS that is stable and has less issues than any MS OS. Maybe that is why you need such a fast box, you spend so much time on this soapbox bashing macs, when your day is done you need a fast pc to catch up.

Frozen pizza -vs- fresh pizza .... I'm wondering what your opinion on that is? Do you like Pizza? What do you like on it? ...if we like different pizza types, who is valid? who is invalid? perhaps the pizza fascist would be INVALID

[glaucomys]

[quote="BONES"]
You really are a dunce. Try running Sonar or Orion or FL Studio or Project 5 or EnergyXT or Synthedit or SynthMaker or any one of a hundred other things I could name if I thought about it for a minute on MacOS. And don't give me this ridiculous garbage about Boot Camp because the first time you're in the middle of something in Logic and realise you want to use EnergyXt for just this little bit, you will see how long it takes you to reboot into Windoze, do the thing, render it out or save it as a MIDI file or whatever it where it can be found by the other OS and then reboot back into MacOS, restart Logic, reload the project you're working on, locate the file you rendered out or saved and then load it into Logic. Believe me, anyone who thinks they can use both OS's on one box is kidding themself. I've tried it over and over again with Linux and in the end its just way more effort than its worth.
[quote]

Bullshit - been using Linux & VMware for years - 3 OS at once - wait until this is supported in OSX, and someone pops up a window with SynthEdit in it, on a mac, and some bright one will write a tool to connect both sessions, that way you can send midiclock to your pc WINDOW and believe me, MS will be stomped... this is just a start, do you think apple will just leave bootcamp as is? this is step one in many... your BS hate is starting to mean nothing...

[Karbon L. Forms]

*orders pizza and confirms supply of popping corn*

fresh pizza (as in bought unfrozen) will likely be less fresh than frozen. same with fish. or a lot of things.

[keyman_sam]

Bones,
I think we're talking about different target audience here. I'm talking about the professional composers (such as Hans Zimmer) who use Cubase, or Logic or whatever it is that they use.

You are talking about bedroom musicians or "wannabe" pros using software such as Orion, Fruity loops and energy-XT.

And thus the confusion.


I'd imagine that professionals have the money to buy a PC just for a particular piece of software (say, Gigastudio) and can get macs for the rest. They have the money. It really doesnt matter to them. If you're talking about bedroom musicians, then, PCs are cheaper in comparision. Hosts like FLS, Orion, etc., are logical choices.



Really, think about it : Why SHOULD professionals jumpship to Orion, Ext, or FLS, or Reaper when they can very well afford to have Logic Pro 7 in their mac? OTOH, if you look at Logic, it probably has most of the features they need for serious work. The only answer you could give is cost, and i repeat : To most pros, it doesnt matter. The 300 or 400 dollar difference between the software is like cheap change for them.


<edit> 999 posts!

[BONES]

some people like to get their work done with a nice OS that is stable and has less issues than any MS OS.

Good for you but that has not been my experience over the last 10 years of using both. MacOS has at least as many issues as WinXP, the main difference being that Apple charge you for the fixes. If I recall correctly, I have had two BSOD's since I installed WinXP about 4 years ago, both related to bad drivers for my laptop graphics which was fixed by an update from Dell, without me having to mention it. Even on older versions of Windoze I found those kinds of problems very, very rare indeed. 99% of the time everything just works, despite what Apple would have you believe.
That is, of course, ignoring the fact that there is only one application that I use professionally that is cross-platform. I've got around US$10000 worth of software on my computer and the only cross-platform application is Combustion. It seems strange that even in a market where Apple has a big chunk of the pie that there are so few cross-platform applications. The obvious implication is that there is no advantage to vendors and quite possibly some disadvantages in porting their software. That is certainly the case with my main application, Toxik.

[keyman_sam]

You yourself admitted that you had craploads of problems with your PC (check out your "i got a new PC" thread).

Dont throw some bullshit just to win an argument. If you're desperate for attention though, go on. I'll get some popcorn.

[BONES]

been using Linux & VMware for years - 3 OS at once

How many VSTi can you run inside a VMware session at once? Its a long time since I tried it but I could barely get 3DS Max to do anything.

MS will be stomped... this is just a start, do you think apple will just leave bootcamp as is? this is step one in many... your BS hate is starting to mean nothing...

Why, because you prefer it? What's to prefer? Its considerably less configuarable, its inelegant in its implementation, its unattractive and I assume uncustomisable [I've certainly never seen anything but the default look] and there is not a single reason for the vast majority who alreay know how to work Windoze to bother to learn OSX. So why would anything Apple do have even the slightest effect on MS? It makes absolutely no sense at all. And even if it did, MS own something like 22% of Apple anyway, so they'd hardly lose out either way. The only thing keeping Apple in the black is iPod.

You yourself admitted that you had craploads of problems with your PC

No, I had one hardware problem and really poor service brought about largely because the manufacturer pulled out of Australia. One problem in 12 years of computing is barely a blip and the kind of thing that happens to everyone now and again. I could only wish that the rest of life was as free of problems as my PC's are.

[BONES]

Bones,
I think we're talking about different target audience here. I'm talking about the professional composers (such as Hans Zimmer) who use Cubase, or Logic or whatever it is that they use.
You are talking about bedroom musicians or "wannabe" pros using software such as Orion, Fruity loops and energy-XT.
And thus the confusion.
I'd imagine that professionals have the money to buy a PC just for a particular piece of software (say, Gigastudio) and can get macs for the rest. They have the money. It really doesnt matter to them. If you're talking about bedroom musicians, then, PCs are cheaper in comparision. Hosts like FLS, Orion, etc., are logical choices.
Really, think about it : Why SHOULD professionals jumpship to Orion, Ext, or FLS, or Reaper when they can very well afford to have Logic Pro 7 in their mac? OTOH, if you look at Logic, it probably has most of the features they need for serious work. The only answer you could give is cost, and i repeat : To most pros, it doesnt matter. The 300 or 400 dollar difference between the software is like cheap change for them.

This is the most seriously f**ked-up argument I can ever recall encountering here. Its so f**ked up I hardly know how to respond. Do you thik Hans Zimmer has ever so much as heard of EnergyXT? Of course he f**king hasn't. Those guys are so far removed from the coal-face they wouldn't know what the f**k was available to them. They waltz into a studio expecting to see the same stuff they've been seeing in studios for the past 10 or 15 years. They have no interest in anything new as long as the stuff they have always used continues to deliver for them. Thinking about it, he probably hires some guy as an operator for his computer and doesn't know much abou tit at all.
Anyway, Whilst I'm sure Hans appreciates you speaking on his behalf, you might wanna think about sticking to your own experience and needs instead of postulating on things of which you clearly no nothing.