When will Reason 4 come out?

[deep'n'dark]

i have made so many requests that i'm not gonna name them all. i'd like to see some kinda decent filter, exciter, new synth would rock to name few - i also have bombarded them with some workflow suggestions which already is the best imo.

i think we will be in heaven soon when they release it.

and yes, something bigger is on it's way as they have been growing a lot.

[Synthbuilder]

Yeah, the Subtractor definitely aliases. Like, a lot. But you clearly know the workaround, so what's the problem? Just render at 88.2 and downsample.

Yes, but this is but one problem I have with Reason. If the Sub were a VSTi I would probably use it a lot, but I'm not going through the rigmarole of rewire to get that one synth.

Also, although the Sub is very capable it still doesn't sound that great at high resonance settings. Aliasing or not. The 12dB filter is quite reasonable, but the 24dB is really quite fatiguing.

Anyway, this thread wasn't to bash Reason, at least not on my part. I think its an absolutely great program and it totally changed the way I write music. But for me, I have moved on. I am more than happy to use Live with some VSTi and my old hardware.

[Warmonger]

Yeah, the 24dB filter kinda blows. I usually prefer the sound of a 12dB anyway (or maybe I just got accustomed to it since the Sub's filter is so bad??).

Anyway, I hadn't really been reading your other posts, so I didn't realize you had switched over to Live. I'm not trying to convince you to go use Reason; I don't really care. Just pointing out that I don't consider aliasing to be a legitimate criticism of the Subtractor.

[neilpullen]

I have one of my Reason tracks here:

http://music.download.com/taklamakan

Nice track and sounds synthbuilder, I like it

[drez]

Who are going to believe--me or your lying ears?

Great sounds. I stand corrected. Now could you mail

me your patch library?

[jacobh]

Yeah, the Subtractor definitely aliases. Like, a lot. But you clearly know the workaround, so what's the problem? Just render at 88.2 and downsample.

Yes, but this is but one problem I have with Reason. If the Sub were a VSTi I would probably use it a lot, but I'm not going through the rigmarole of rewire to get that one synth.

Also, although the Sub is very capable it still doesn't sound that great at high resonance settings. Aliasing or not. The 12dB filter is quite reasonable, but the 24dB is really quite fatiguing.

I know what you mean, but I solve the problem in a bit different way. I make my own Antialias filter! Here's how:

1. Subtractor is rather bright as far as synths go, so if I am using a sound that has high resonance settings with the 24dB filter, I just put another filter after it to cut off some of the high end. Sometimes I use the Subtractor's own "Filter 2" to just cutt off some of the high end. Or sometimes I just add a filter effect after the Subtractor with a 24dB LP, no resonance, and a high cuttoff, so that it just barely cuts off some of the extreme highs. This can often give you a warmer sound too.

2. Or, another way to do things is if you want some high resonance settings, use the modwheel to control your filter sweep, and set the modwheel to control resonance too, and have it turn the resonance down as the filter is swept up.

3. Also, you can use the EQ, or even Scream4 with the tape setting, to take off some of the high end. Sometimes the subtractor's high end just needs a little taming.

[jacobh]

Who are going to believe--me or your lying ears?

Great sounds. I stand corrected. Now could you mail

me your patch library?

Actually, I'm thinking about releasing a Refill.

[drez]

Yes, the filter on the sub is weak, but I run the sub through the malstrom's filters. I don't know why anyone would use the sub filters with the mal's sitting right there!

[Warmonger]

Maybe because the Mal filter is applied monophonically on the input from the Subtractor?

[headquest]

Actually, I'm thinking about releasing a Refill.

Based on your fantastic track, I think that would be great. Keep us all posted about it please

[jacobh]

Yes, the Malstrom's filter can be nice if you want a Monophonically applied filter, but if you want a filter that differs on every voice of the patch, then you've got to stick inside the Subtractor. If you want a new and different sounding 24dB filter, then try using the Subtractor's Filter 2 linked with the 12dB filter. The Filter 2 is actually a 12dB filter, so by linking them, you effectively make a 24dB filter. Make sure you turn Filter 2 on, hit the link button, and have it sweept to the lowest setting. This way it becomes a 24dB filter.

If you want an 18dB filter (the old TB 303 was a 18dB filter), then raise the cuttoff of Filter 2 just slightly.

You can get some interesting effects with stagered filters. Hope these tips come in helpful for somebody.

[drez]

Yes, the Malstrom's filter can be nice if you want a Monophonically applied filter, but if you want a filter that differs on every voice of the patch, then you've got to stick inside the Subtractor.

I don't understand (probably because I'm not that smart). If i shove a single voice through the filter on the sub, it sounds the same as if shove 3 voices through it. At least I THOUGHT it did. If I adjust the filter resonance, it affects all the voices, right?

[jacobh]

It can sound the same, but it can also sound different. Yes, resonance affects all voices, but each voice actually has it's own filter. There isn't just one filter for the whole synth, but one for each voice.

You can hear it this way: Use an evelope on the filter, turn up the resonance, make the envelope times fairly long, and then you can hear the filter change over time as you hold down the key. Hold down one note, wait a second, then hold down another note at the same time. You should be able to hear that when you hit the second note, it didn't affect the filter on the first note. You should be able to hear two separate resonance points.

That's a polyphonic filter. Any filter that happens after the output of a synth though, can only be monophonically applied to the whole audio output.

Make sense? I hope that didn't sound too confusing. Monophonically applied filters can be great for some things though. It just depends on what you're going for.

[drez]

Thank you for the explanation! That makes it clear...

They need to make a better filter on the sub.

[jacobh]

I'd love some new filters too. I'm guessing Reason 4 will in some way have some. On existing synth, or a new synth. Meanwhile, I'm creating fabulous sounds with the existing ones.