Time Signatures In Fl Studio

[incubus]

That is great to hear Scott! Good luck in 2017!

I have mentioned this here several times at KVR before (re the sky is falling due to LFU), but DAW software with paid-for update licenses, the percentage of sales that come from upgrade purchases, in any 12 month period, is about 20-25%.

Upgrade income is not as important as many people seem to think.

Most people buy DAW software once in their life and never upgrade, upgrade only a few times in total, or end up churning after an upgrade or two.

Regards Scott

But Scott, you know we iz all only interested in one thing......

Mo' features

12.4 was a banner update for me. Though I liked many aspects of 12, the progression to now feels good to use for us audio people.

Can't wait for 13

[sjm]

Believe me, it is purely cosmetic. 100%.

I'm going to trust janvicil's opinion on this over yours if you don't mind. She really knows her shit.

[exmatproton]

Believe me, it is purely cosmetic. 100%.

I'm going to trust janvicil's opinion on this over yours if you don't mind. She really knows her shit.

Whatever you want. I don't care

But still, i can use multiple time sigs just like in any other daw i use (without changing the actual time sig per project ofcourse).

[JMC]

I think that IL are at a crossroads with existing lifetime upgrade users and the need to fuel their flattened cash flow by the lifetime policy.

Don't worry about our cash-flow : We are doing record sales every year online
and we are hearing the same from Guitar Center who can't keep up with the
demand. Just look around you and count how many people you know of that
use FL Studio have actually paid for it ... and you see where the potential is.

We're getting that : "They don't care about existing customers because of the
lifetime free updates" all the time while I'm pretty sure we are making more
on on existing users (buying one of our amazing synths or FX) than we ever could
on paid updates ... which pushes 3/4 of the customer base back into warez (not
buying any more synths or FX ever again).

Back to the original subject : FL Studio is an amazing product that has been
around for almost 2 decades so we are often limited to choices made ages
ago without touching on how things work. Different Time Signatures have been
on our to do for quite some time and we hope to have something really cool
to present in that area for FL Studio 13.

[memyselfandus]

I love FL Studio. It was one of my first music softwares on PC.

[brainzistor]

No it's not, and Jan is right. It's a workflow issue. It's to do with placing the bars and having everything line up properly. Not because of how it looks, but because of how the playlist snap works. Aside from patterns not lining up properly, it also means that markers - and by extension song sections - don't work if you change time signatures within a song.

Then how did I make song in FLS that starts in 4/4, 180bpm, then it slows down to 120bpm, then it speeds up to 180bpm and continues in 9/8?

This was done for OSC Synth1 contest (9/8 starts at 5:50):

https://soundcloud.com/user-67104555/br ... g-above-us

Please, tell me more how it "doesn't work". Are you implying that I did the impossible?
Thank you.

Here are different time signatures in playlist:



Patterns are not aligning? I don't understand why you have to lie to prove your point or maybe it's just that you don't have a clue what you are talking about in the first place.
SHOW ME where patterns/clips in different time signatures are not aligning in the picture.

Sure, you can make everything in a time signature of 1/8 or whatever, and the snap will sort-of-work. But to say it's nothing more than a visual issue is to say it would be perfectly acceptable to write a piece in 7/8 but notate it in a different time signature (e.g. 4/4), and then expect people to be able to easily sight read and play the piece.
As Jan says, it is due to a lack of understanding of what time signatures are.

Yes, because musicians in symphonic orchestra are reading from piano rolls and not note sheets.
You are comparing apples and oranges to prove your point. Let's ignore that piano roll doesn't hold the most simplest information like what articulation you should use, but let's talk about symphonic orchestra not being able to read time signatures in piano roll...I'm getting a headache here...

No, it's you and others not knowing what time signature is.
You determine in what time signature you work with the length of your pattern/clip, that's literally everything you need to know.




Global 4/4 or global time signature in FLS or in any other DAW means literally shit, here I made clips with various different time signatures in Reaper, as you can see global time signature is set to 4/4 but you have 3/4, 5/4, 6/8, 7/8, 9/8, etc. clips there and they are all snapping:




That's what pisses me off, because when Image-Line implements what people are asking while not even understanding what they are asking for, we'll have absolute idiots saying:
"Hooraaay, FLS now supports different time signatures and now you can have multiple time signatures in your song, now FLS is more professional"
while you could do that even 10+ years ago in Fruity Loops 4 and I was DOING IT even back then
and not only that but I was combining different time signatures as well, where drums/percussion play in 9/8 or 7/8 time signature while other instruments play in 4/4, etc.

The only difference is that bars in playlist will match the length of patterns/clips, which is just a visual issue, like it's been said previously by people who are actually not absolutely clueless.

Should I post 50 of my tracks to prove the point, I don't get it...
All I see people are posting random crap with literally ZERO evidence of what they are claiming.
This happens all the time on KVR and people argue for 10 pages while nobody even bothers to post a screenshot, music, or whatever. Just empty talk with zero evidence.

Pattern/clips with different time signatures are not snapping, aligning?
POST ME a screenshot, make a video, show me and I'll prove you wrong, actually I already did.

Even when Image-Line implements it, I won't use it because I never need it in the first place...

[EvilDragon]

Global 4/4 or global time signature in FLS or in any other DAW means literally shit, here I made clips with various different time signatures in Reaper, as you can see global time signature is set to 4/4 but you have 3/4, 5/4, 6/8, 7/8, 9/8, etc. clips there and they are all snapping:

And you didn't actually use any timesig markers, LOL.


And yes, patterns are NOT aligning in your FL example. One bar doesn't last the same in all timesigs, and this is where FL's playlist fails. By aligning, we mean aligning to bar count in the playlist ruler. So, when that first 7/8 clip you have ends, there should not be another 8th note before the ruler switches to bar 2. It should do it when that clip ends, provided you added a marker to it to denote the global timesig change (which is what you forgot to do in your Reaper example just to prove your point, which is beside the point )


Scott's example here of what will be coming to FL is close:



But even here the bar numbers don't align well. Here's how it SHOULD be, if global timesig changes are implemented (notice the ruler bar numbers):



That's how global timesig changes should be. Period. It doesn't take away anything from your current workflow of cramming any timesig you want into a 4/4 project (which is all fine and dandy if you want to work that way, but I am not the only one who doesn't want to work that way, obviously - and mind you, I am not insulting the way you work at all. I think it's fine, it gets the work done for you, great. Doesn't work for the rest of us.), but it is NOT something that should be disregarded for those who rely on accurate grid that follows timesigs.


EDIT: Same example as above in Reaper, done properly with timesig markers:




There, I posted screenshots, I do know what I'm talking about. And yes, Scott is right in saying that this thing is purely visual rather than technical. I agree with that. So if it's just visual and helps some people, why not implement it, add an option, and then everyone's happy? Why indeed... that's why it's coming in FL13 (although I do hope with proper bar numbering as per my mockup of Scott's example above)

[brainzistor]

And you didn't actually use any timesig markers, LOL.

I did it on purpose and you are obviously clueless to understand why even though I explained it.

And yes, patterns are NOT aligning in your FL example. One bar doesn't last the same in all timesigs, and this is where FL's playlist fails. By aligning, we mean aligning to bar count in the playlist ruler.

FLS' playlist is not failing anywhere, the only one who is failing is you with your lack of knowledge
about this subject and not looking at my screenshots like you should.

So, when that first 7/8 clip you have ends, there should not be another 8th note before the ruler switches to bar 2. It should do it when that clip ends, provided you added a marker to it to denote the global timesig change (which is what you forgot to do in your Reaper example just to prove your point, which is beside the point )

I didn't forget anything. I did it ON PURPOSE and you simply fail to understand why. I DID prove my point.
By not using global time signature change in Reaper I only proved that you can work in multiple time signatures without changing global time signature, just like you would work in FLS.

That's how global timesig changes should be. Period. It doesn't take away anything from your current workflow of cramming any timesig you want into a 4/4 project.

I'm laughing so hard at this.
I'm not "cramming" ANYTHING. You are just "cramming" me with your lack of knowledge and failing
at understanding a thing I said even after looking at pictures I posted.

There, I posted screenshots, I do know what I'm talking about.

OF COURSE you don't know what you are talking about and you proved literally nothing.
Now, post me a screenshot of 3 instruments playing in:
7/8
4/4
5/4
and try not to call it a "cramming" of different time signatures into a wrong global time signature.

Since Wags started spamming about his "prog project" all over the place on KVR recently wanting to emulate the sound of Yes, Genesis, etc., YOU DO realize that in some songs of those bands drums are playing in one time signature, keyboards in some other and guitar in the third time signature.
3 instruments playing in 3 different time signatures at the same time.
How would you do that unless "cramming" stuff in DAW?

It only proves that you NEVER even worked really with different time signatures and working with at least 2 different time signatures at the same time BUT you want to argue with people who did it.
Now, go back to my Reaper's screenshot and think about it again and why I did it, same thing with my FLS' screenshot.

You ABSOLUTELY failed to understand that I wasn't only talking about multiple time signatures in a chronological way (horizontal way), but multiple time signatures playing at the same time (vertical way) too.


So, does the global time signature matters?
IT DOESN'T. I just proved that it doesn't, but it's not my fault that you are looking at pictures and not understanding what's going on.

Is this ANY different from me just ignoring the whole thing (global time signature) from the start?
Nope.

So, my workflow is that I'm "cramming" different time signatures in a 4/4 project,
but if you want to have 2 different instruments playing in different time signatures, that's not "cramming"?


If drums are playing in 7/8 and you are creating melody or chords in 4/4, global time signature means nothing to you because you will set it either to 7/8 or 4/4, you can't have it both ways,
which means that you will "cramming" things and it means that global signature means shit,
why even bother with it in the first place. THAT'S WHY I stopped bothering with it +10 years ago.
Get it?

Now, since I saw you recently having discussion with other people about prog rock bands and prog metal bands, you do realize that you accused all those bands for "cramming"?
Because all those prog bands from time to time play in different time signatures
at the same time and they are not "cramming", but I do?
Maybe you are saying that without being capable of understanding what you are listening to?
Because I really can't explain it differently.
Or you just simply forgot about that?
I don't know, I don't care...
But I want you to keep in mind that if we took all of this outside of DAW world, that you accused
Dream Theater which you like for "cramming" and thinking they have f..cked up workflow and literally any other band, artists, composer, whatever that created a song that has different time signatures playing at the same time.

Should FLS have what other DAW's have when it comes to time signatures?
Yes, but just because you or anyone else didn't step away from basic stuff musically it doesn't mean that me or someone else are "cramming" things, not knowing what we are talking about, because I just proved to you that you obviously don't know what you are talking about even after I posted you pictures

Next time, well, pay attention more what other people are saying.

[EvilDragon]

Bullshit. I know what you tried to point out, and I do get it. But I wasn't talking about polymeters (which you did - and I totally get it). What I wanted to see is supporting global timesig changes with correct ruler bar numbering, which my mockup shows clearly! I guess we crossed streams there, you not talking about global timesig changes, and me talking about exactly that.

And I do know what polymeters are (I did go to music school and had my music theory classes, y'know?). They're a tricky thing to get right in a linear DAW (which FL isn't). The only proper solution would be multiple rulers for each track that is in different time signature - simply to have things nice laid out visually, and so that bar count aligns for each different timesig. I'm not sure if any DAW actually has that? Or... the way you do it, by disregarding global timesig completely. Which is IMHO not really the best way to go about it from housekeeping/organizing perspective, but since you can do it in any DAW, I guess whatever works...


All I wanted to show is how there should be support for global timesig changes in FL just like in other DAWs. Why? Because it is a LOT more often scenario than polymeters. That's all.

So to recap:

* in case of all instruments playing in the same timesigs throughout the project, which change here and there - global timesig changes ARE IMPORTANT. You cannot say that they aren't. Perhaps they aren't for you, but you can't dismiss that they wouldn't be important for others.
* in case of different instruments playing in different timesigs throughout the project - global timesig changes are NOT IMPORTANT. At least not without multiple rulers with different bar numbering per track, which no DAW (AFAIK) has?

[chk071]

I don't know much about the topic being discussed. But, there is one important thing to consider too, and that's consistency. If you switch from another DAW, or generally, switch between, or use several DAW's, you'd want consistency in the functionality. If one DAW does it differently than any other DAW, then there's a problem that you always need to adapt to the way it's done in that specific DAW. It just makes life difficult, if you need to figure out how it was done, every time you switch back. Just saying.

[memyselfandus]

Polymeters in FL! At once! seriously though. This would be cool in a daw. Not sure that any daw does per track time signatures (easily?) besides Radium? I've done it in Reaper (pretty easily) by saving midi items in different time sigs and inserting various ones on multiple tracks for context while performing/recording into midi items. Not sure if I'm making sense. Just woke up.

The one thing with FL though is if you want the metronome to click to the current time sig you are working on in a particular track.. you can't do that yet. In something like Reaper or whatever.. you just record one track in a time signature then change the global time sig to whatever you want for the next track and so on.

I guess I've done polymeters in Live as well by using multiple time sigs via cells and then playing them into the arrange view.

Edit

Reason as well! Especially with blocks using multiple tracks.

[EvilDragon]

Polymeters are already possible in any DAW, as brainzistor clearly showed.

[brainzistor]

Double post...geez

[brainzistor]

Double post

[brainzistor]

Bullshit. I know what you tried to point out, and I do get it. But I wasn't talking about polymeters (which you did - and I totally get it). What I wanted to see is supporting global timesig changes with correct ruler bar numbering, which my mockup shows clearly! I guess we crossed streams there, you not talking about global timesig changes, and me talking about exactly that.
And I do know what polymeters are (I did go to music school and had my music theory classes, y'know?). They're a tricky thing to get right in a linear DAW (which FL isn't).

Bullshit?
Call it however you want, I proved you wrong, deal with it.

I talked about both things and polymeters in previous post how I was doing it even in Fruity Loops 4 +10 years ago, here:

"Hooraaay, FLS now supports different time signatures and now you can have multiple time signatures in your song, now FLS is more professional"
while you could do that even 10+ years ago in Fruity Loops 4 and I was DOING IT even back then
and not only that but I was combining different time signatures as well, where drums/percussion play in 9/8 or 7/8 time signature while other instruments play in 4/4, etc.

Then you replied without EVEN mentioning polymeters AT ALL and went LOL-ing how I didn't use different time signature markers in Reaper.
You simply skipped that part and went with your arguments that actually didn't make really sense.

The only proper solution would be multiple rulers for each track that is in different time signature - simply to have things nice laid out visually, and so that bar count aligns for each different timesig.

Oh, now you want to have it both ways. Playlist's bars to show you 2 different time signatures?
Hilarious!
Isn't that CRAMMING because one instrument's clips won't match the global time signature?


Oh, but it's me who has a f..cked up workflow, quote:

It doesn't take away anything from your current workflow of cramming any timesig you want into a 4/4 project

and ending with:

There, I posted screenshots, I do know what I'm talking about.

with a typical KVR sarcasm

All I wanted to show is how there should be support for global timesig changes in FL just like in other DAWs. Why? Because it is a LOT more often scenario than polymeters. That's all.

You wrote like 5 posts on the last 2 pages and you didn't mention polymeters anywhere, EVEN when I did and you went replying to me like I didn't mention them anywhere, now you are just backpedaling and making out of square a circle.


You know, not everyone knows everything, you learn as you live. It's more than obvious that you didn't work with different time signatures at the same time. If you did then you would realize how the global time signature in DAW means shit.
You would simply give up after making 5-10 tracks and you would just ignore it, no matter if you started working in 4/4 then switching to 7/8 or 5/4 or working with different time signatures at the same time.
You would simply get accustomed to...my favorite word of the day CRAMMING up things.


If the global time signatures will make everyone happy and to realize they can FINALLY work with different time signatures in FLS, I'm fine with it.


PS
Stop taking things seriously and PM-ing me, I know you from Reaper's forums for years and it was a such pleasure to "torture" you now.
Btw,
clueless
/ˈkluːləs/
adjective
having no knowledge, understanding

Nobody called you stupid
Cheers!