I'm not sure that really helps your argument any!Muzik 4 Machines wrote:mike oldfield(on a giant screen)snooky wrote:but really - what professional usee FL? it's a kiddies program for tarnce kiddes..sheesh.
Pretty stupid comment from Propellerhead stuff memeber on FL
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- KVRAF
- 4822 posts since 14 Mar, 2002 from Somewhere else, on principle
Last edited by John Vulich on Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 4222 posts since 23 Feb, 2004 from Tucson Arizona USA
Of course, when that photo was taken, that display was considered extravagant. These days, though, every time I go to the big store where I get my groceries, someone is invariably in line with a damn huge LCD TV. Big screen TV's, even those with DVI ports for your computer, are mundane consumer items now.John Vulich wrote:I'm not sure that really helps your argument any!Muzik 4 Machines wrote:mike oldfield(on a giant screen)snooky wrote:but really - what professional usee FL? it's a kiddies program for tarnce kiddes..sheesh.
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- KVRAF
- 7873 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA
imo all hosts are toys.John Vulich wrote:Pretty funny for a guy talking about 2 programs that are both essentially just toys anyway.
At least FL Studio, can record audio, send midi to hardware synths, and host VST/VSTis!
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali
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The Recycle Bin The Recycle Bin https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=58148
- KVRist
- 30 posts since 16 Feb, 2005
You know what Oldfield is thinking?John Vulich wrote:I'm not sure that really helps your argument any!Muzik 4 Machines wrote:mike oldfield(on a giant screen)snooky wrote:but really - what professional usee FL? it's a kiddies program for tarnce kiddes..sheesh.
"Damn, I wanted Reason for Christmas but my mum bought me this piece of filth."
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- KVRAF
- 4822 posts since 14 Mar, 2002 from Somewhere else, on principle
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- KVRAF
- 4222 posts since 23 Feb, 2004 from Tucson Arizona USA
There is one valid-ish point about his argument: The C++ programming language can target everything from microcontrollers to supercomputers.
A competent C++ programmer, (which many claim to be but few actually pass the test, and *I* am the interviewer), should be able to pick up a platform-specific language such as Delphi in short order and be productive with it, although a person who came into Delphi by way of Object Pascal back in the day will have advantages.
People who make abstract arguments for a particular language over another, don't get too far with me. My shop recruits from a university where all graduates have had at least one platform of assembly language, lots and lots of system programming in C (including capstone courses in OS development and Compiler design), have developed at least one networked multiplayer game in Java, a course in comparative languages that has big projects in ML, Ruby, Smalltalk, and Python, on top of all the theory, higher math, and 1 or 2 years of a lab science. People come out of there opinionated, but with reasonable attitudes regarding the suitability of various programming languages to a given task.
That's unprofessional behavior #1, of the forum poster/employee.
Unprofessional behavior #2 is far worse, and unexcusable: NEVER, EVER, reflect to the customer that the competition is inferior to your product or service. Sell your product based on it's superiority -- the competition is great, but we are *so much better* that you should only do business with us -- and here are our reasons... (sales pitch continues).
When you go on the negative approach, all the customer hears is that you claimed the competition was inferior, and the perception is usually that you stepped on the customer's toes (it was *his* evaluation to make, not *yours* to give him, and it is almost universally received badly.)
I would not tolerate for a moment, anyone who represents my business, to put this kind of negative claim against the competetion before a customer. I'd give them a second chance, after a bit of role playing so that they can understand why it's a poor practice, but the second time would be the last.
You don't sell your product by suggesting your competition is inferior. All the customer hears when you do that is that maybe the competition is inferior but you're saying he should by your product because it's better -- even if it's only mediocre. This is definitely not where you want to leave the ball. Customer is more likely to want to see for himself, and finding that the competitor's product doesn't look so bad, he won't believe you've been honest with him -- end of that customer for you!
I know what I'm talking about here. Run this by someone with a little marketing experience or sales management, and they will tell you too, it's not just a trivial thing. A good way to guarantee you lose a customer is to try to elevate yourself by simply badmouthing someone else. It doesn't work, you lose, and the guy you trashed probably gets your business when the customer goes to check it out.
A competent C++ programmer, (which many claim to be but few actually pass the test, and *I* am the interviewer), should be able to pick up a platform-specific language such as Delphi in short order and be productive with it, although a person who came into Delphi by way of Object Pascal back in the day will have advantages.
People who make abstract arguments for a particular language over another, don't get too far with me. My shop recruits from a university where all graduates have had at least one platform of assembly language, lots and lots of system programming in C (including capstone courses in OS development and Compiler design), have developed at least one networked multiplayer game in Java, a course in comparative languages that has big projects in ML, Ruby, Smalltalk, and Python, on top of all the theory, higher math, and 1 or 2 years of a lab science. People come out of there opinionated, but with reasonable attitudes regarding the suitability of various programming languages to a given task.
That's unprofessional behavior #1, of the forum poster/employee.
Unprofessional behavior #2 is far worse, and unexcusable: NEVER, EVER, reflect to the customer that the competition is inferior to your product or service. Sell your product based on it's superiority -- the competition is great, but we are *so much better* that you should only do business with us -- and here are our reasons... (sales pitch continues).
When you go on the negative approach, all the customer hears is that you claimed the competition was inferior, and the perception is usually that you stepped on the customer's toes (it was *his* evaluation to make, not *yours* to give him, and it is almost universally received badly.)
I would not tolerate for a moment, anyone who represents my business, to put this kind of negative claim against the competetion before a customer. I'd give them a second chance, after a bit of role playing so that they can understand why it's a poor practice, but the second time would be the last.
You don't sell your product by suggesting your competition is inferior. All the customer hears when you do that is that maybe the competition is inferior but you're saying he should by your product because it's better -- even if it's only mediocre. This is definitely not where you want to leave the ball. Customer is more likely to want to see for himself, and finding that the competitor's product doesn't look so bad, he won't believe you've been honest with him -- end of that customer for you!
I know what I'm talking about here. Run this by someone with a little marketing experience or sales management, and they will tell you too, it's not just a trivial thing. A good way to guarantee you lose a customer is to try to elevate yourself by simply badmouthing someone else. It doesn't work, you lose, and the guy you trashed probably gets your business when the customer goes to check it out.
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Muzik 4 Machines Muzik 4 Machines https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9550 - KVRAF
- 7829 posts since 6 Oct, 2003 from Quebec
i'm not in the argument, actually, if any i'm on the reason side and was mesmerized when I saw ths picin here some years ago
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Muzik 4 Machines Muzik 4 Machines https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9550
- KVRAF
- 7829 posts since 6 Oct, 2003 from Quebec
i'm well aware of that(the resolution loks shit) bu timpressive no more that big piano roll in full screenjames0tucson wrote:Of course, when that photo was taken, that display was considered extravagant. These days, though, every time I go to the big store where I get my groceries, someone is invariably in line with a damn huge LCD TV. Big screen TV's, even those with DVI ports for your computer, are mundane consumer items now.John Vulich wrote:I'm not sure that really helps your argument any!Muzik 4 Machines wrote:mike oldfield(on a giant screen)snooky wrote:but really - what professional usee FL? it's a kiddies program for tarnce kiddes..sheesh.
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- KVRAF
- 4822 posts since 14 Mar, 2002 from Somewhere else, on principle
"Stuff Memeber"??? Well now. That sheds a whole new light on the matter, doesn't it?Propellerhead stuff memeber
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
OMG! The world is ending!!!!tony tony chopper wrote: ... those ikea warLorDz ...
A member of Image Line's staff has been rude not just about Propellerhead, but also about FL Studio's main rival - the sweedish furniture giant IKEA!!!!
That's just racist against the Swedes
QUICK! Let's start a new thread...
Pretty stupid comment from Image Line staff member about Reason, IKEA, and the Sweedish nation!!
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tony tony chopper tony tony chopper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3103
- KVRAF
- 3561 posts since 20 Jun, 2002
it's swedish with 1 eand the Sweedish nation
OMG you've insulted a whole country!!!!!!
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- KVRian
- 1098 posts since 21 Apr, 2004
has anyone noted that the propellerhead "stuff" member that made these comments was the former webmaster for the props site and not a current staff member - and I believe he was never a full-time prophead but a freelancer
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tony tony chopper tony tony chopper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3103
- KVRAF
- 3561 posts since 20 Jun, 2002
this kind of stuffed member?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5200 posts since 17 Aug, 2004
He did Reason 3.0 trailer. Is this enough? Do you want message of that...??headquest wrote:A lot of people speculate that he works for them based on circumstantial evidence, and I've seen a running joke there about him being a P'Head employee ... Do you have proper evidence?kmonkey wrote: He is working for them. Just read past few week posts. He used to be moderator. Now this is job from Ola. He is something else in phead now. Can not remember what.
If he actually does work for them, then he's seriously breaking their company policies...