Shows us Theory Newbies how to implement chords.

[Toxikator]

as genres like DnB, . you'll find almost NO jazz influence at all;

hmmm...

I should clarify: none that I've heard. I confess to not being a huge DnB head so I have no scope of what's out there but most of what I've heard is very melodically and harmonically simple, with a focus on minor keys and very simple progressions.

[vurt]

as genres like DnB, . you'll find almost NO jazz influence at all;

hmmm...

I should clarify: none that I've heard. I confess to not being a huge DnB head so I have no scope of what's out there but most of what I've heard is very melodically and harmonically simple, with a focus on minor keys and very simple progressions.

well in future try and at least use examples you have more knowledge of, things like this and your "cage" examples just make you look foolish.

[Toxikator]

well in future try and at least use examples you have more knowledge of, things like this and your "cage" examples just make you look foolish.

Cage examples?

Anyway I'd love to hear an example (not picking a fight, I'd just love to hear an example of Jazz in Drum N Bass).

[JumpingJackFlash]

For God's sake, can't we just agree that there are many different methods of notating chords. That's not just one for classical and one for jazz, but many for classical and many for jazz. Some are more suited to certain types of music. No system is inherently better or worse than another for every type of music.

People use what they are familiar with. There's nothing wrong with that. You may find it harder to understand, but that doesn't make it wrong. It is up to every individual to adopt a style which suits them best. No one can say that all music should be analysed in a certain way and only that way. What works well in one context doesn't necessarily work well in another.

Agreed? (If not, I can't be bothered to argue, so you'll either have to accept it, or continually hurl insults at everyone who doesn't use the same exact methods that you do).

[Toxikator]

NO U! UR METHOD IS TEH SUX!!!1

agreed...

[Kingston]

I have to admit, this forum would be rather interesting if it didn't escalate into historical vs. jazz approach trench warfare in every single thread - or more accurately, toxicator vs. the rest of the forum.

oh and that dnb quote is a bloody gem.

[vurt]

when you bring cage up as an example of bad experimental musicians based on hearing two or three compositions alone.

as for jazz/dnb try roni size-newforms
or even squarepusher who i guess is often described more as drill n bass but the genres to me are so close id say dnb.

[BosseJo]

Says you. I can think of maybe 3 bands out of my collection of hundreds of albums that employ vague tonality. Again, if you're analyzing modern pop and jazz, this is true. for Rock, it's somewhat true, but when you start to consider derivative forms like Punk, Metal, Thrash, etc as well as genres like DnB, Indus, etc. you'll find almost NO jazz influence at all; It's particularly true of black-metal and classical crossover acts, which are neoclassical and to which a classical system CLEARLY applies.

Now you have really lost it.

[Toxikator]

Says you. I can think of maybe 3 bands out of my collection of hundreds of albums that employ vague tonality. Again, if you're analyzing modern pop and jazz, this is true. for Rock, it's somewhat true, but when you start to consider derivative forms like Punk, Metal, Thrash, etc as well as genres like DnB, Indus, etc. you'll find almost NO jazz influence at all; It's particularly true of black-metal and classical crossover acts, which are neoclassical and to which a classical system CLEARLY applies.

Now you have really lost it.

Let's drop DnB out, since on a forum like this DnB also evidently means IDM (I don't count them as the same at all), Drill, Breakcore, Dub, and a hundred other genres that use the Amen break.

When I say DnB I'm thinking of Dieselboy and that ilk; Aphex Twin, Squarepusher, that's not at ALL what I mean.

And Bosse, you're free to find me 10 examples of thrash, metal, or hardcore bands that employ jazz theory. If you do, I will literally delete this account and leave KvR forever. (Prog Rock != metal, BTW)

[vurt]

Let's drop DnB out, since on a forum like this DnB also evidently means IDM (I don't count them as the same at all), Drill, Breakcore, Dub, and a hundred other genres that use the Amen break.

When I say DnB I'm thinking of Dieselboy and that ilk; Aphex Twin, Squarepusher, that's not at ALL what I mean.

And Bosse, you're free to find me 10 examples of thrash, metal, or hardcore bands that employ jazz theory. If you do, I will literally delete this account and leave KvR forever. (Prog Rock != metal, BTW)

lets not include dnb cos i have no clue what im talking about...

hmm 10 bands of that ilk that use jazz and you even allow prog...
can we do one each to save time or do we need ten each?

[Kingston]

what Squarepusher plays could be very accurately defined as traditional jazz, if one discounts the drums. And he does it bloody well better than most respected names.

toxi seems to be one tremendously misinformed chin stroker.

[Toxikator]

hmm 10 bands of that ilk that use jazz and you even allow prog...

!= means "does not equal".

As in, I do NOT allow prog, prog is entirely diff.

[Toxikator]

what Squarepusher plays could be very accurately defined as traditional jazz, if one discounts the drums.

So could Benny Goodman. the problem is whether it counts as DnB.

Anyway, it is clear that I do not know DnB as a style nearly as well as I originally believed.

The rest still stand.

BTW lets move this to "itt"..

[Kingston]

hmm 10 bands of that ilk that use jazz and you even allow prog...

!= means "does not equal".

As in, I do NOT allow prog, prog is entirely diff.

and it's underlings are different to metal precisely because...?

windmills.

[Toxikator]

EDIT: Oh!

No, prog isn't the same as metal because prog is very specifically a style which combines those kinds of trends.

I'm well aware that Prog Rock is heavily influenced by Jazz, or at least in many practicioners.

I'm making the point that there's plenty of music out there that ISN'T Jazz. Genre names are vauge enough that you can probably find bands in ANY genre that use jazz theory. The important point that you're missing is how many bands and genres there are that are fundamentally NOT jazz, all of which goes back to the original case which was made by Nuffink and Sascha that all modern music is similar enough to jazz to warrant a jazz analysis.