Guitar players! The search for Amp Sims is over AXE-FX

[bmanic]

also feel is one thing that is impossible to tell from mp3 demo clips....

Nope, if the performance was whack because the guitar player didn't feel comfortable playing it can be heard. Too bad the audience would never know it could have been a much better performance had the engineer made it comfortable for the player.

See where this is going? Recording music isn't just about how it's performed on a technical level.

Cheers!
bManic

[Hink]

also feel is one thing that is impossible to tell from mp3 demo clips....

Nope, if the performance was whack because the guitar player didn't feel comfortable playing it can be heard. Too bad the audience would never know it could have been a much better performance had the engineer made it comfortable for the player.

See where this is going? Recording music isn't just about how it's performed on a technical level.

Cheers!
bManic

I'm not sure I said anything ever to contradict that...seriously, bmanic....you either missed what I was saying entirely or are just having fun. My point is each persons feel is different, you cannot tell that by clips...if the person playing the clips is uncomfortable how will the listener know that fact? Really I have no idea what your post has to do with what I've said, I'm talking about using clips to decide how it would feel to a player considering this unit, not the feel of whoever made the clips

[bmanic]

What I wanted to point out with my post was this:

Making the recording environment as friendly/comfortable/cozy as possible is equally important to the actual technical qualities of the recording. This is an extremely important part of any audio engineering and usually separates the legends from the wannabes.

Same is true for a guitar amp "simulator". If it doesn't feel good, aka behave realistically (behavior and sound is separate things!), while playing and is counter intuitive to the actual recording, it will do much more damage than "just being another emulation". So my point was, if Axe-Fx is really what the hype is about, the creators of this unit have finally understood this very aspect of guitar amp emulations! It's NOT just about the sound, it's about the whole process.

It is also the single biggest reason why I personally do not like Line6 guitar simulators, at all! They do not FEEL RIGHT or behave right when playing.

I hope I was more clear this time. I didn't mean to be vague, I'm just not very good at writing explanations so I'm sorry about that!

Cheers!
bManic

[Hink]

I'm still confused how that differs from what I'm saying, the only difference is I disagree about the PODs..I'm sorry I just do not see or feel the limitations you're talking about. The truth is there are many, many reasons why sims and real amps are different, also they make good reasons why perhaps it's time to stop comparing them to each other. (sim is a word that should be dropped)

As I have said a bazillion times there are things about real amps a sim wont do and some things a sim will do that amps can't. Why this becomes polarized as it does is far beyond me, for some reason because I have a POD it rules out all the real amps I have and have had and I must be totally for sims. You want to talk about feel? Let me tell you, if I crank up my halfstack you begin to feel it in places a sim can never reach and tbh that feel (and tone) varies greatly from one amp to another.

If this new unit captures that feel of a live amp more it would really stand out for me. But like I also said in this thread, a lot of feel is thinking outside the box. You see where this is going? The same place as you, except what feels right to each of us is different...I reckon that's why there are so many types to choose from...

As for your first paragraph I'll just scratch my head and say "uh....duh"

[CapnLockheed]

As I have said a bazillion times there are things about real amps a sim wont do and some things a sim will do that amps can't. Why this becomes polarized as it does is far beyond me, for some reason because I have a POD it rules out all the real amps I have and have had and I must be totally for sims. You want to talk about feel? Let me tell you, if I crank up my halfstack you begin to feel it in places a sim can never reach and tbh that feel (and tone) varies greatly from one amp to another.

F*cking brilliant Hink! Why must it always be apples vs. oranges
or tubes vs. transistors or analog .vs digital? We are
soooo lucky to have access to soooo many tools...soooo many
colors on the pallette.....vive le difference!

Frank said it best...."Shut up and play yer guitar!"

Cheers....CL

[bmanic]

You want to talk about feel? Let me tell you, if I crank up my halfstack you begin to feel it in places a sim can never reach and tbh that feel (and tone) varies greatly from one amp to another.

You are still obviously missing my point and take the word "Feel" too literally. I do not know what english word to use.

For instance, on a POD it is much, MUCH, harder to get a sustaining pinch harmonic, at any interval, than on a real amp. I do not know why this is so but it just is. The pick and my thumb needs to barely touch any string on my cheap telecaster chinese copy when I play a real amp and a beautiful pinch harmonic with full sound happens. On all the amp sims I've tried, both hardware and software, I need to really dig in that pick/thumb combination into the string, HARD, and even then it's a weak tone at best. So, if Axe-FX is modeled more precisely in this "sensory" department (mechanical? better word?) it is a huge leap forward from the other amp sims.

Anyhow, I clearly do not have the words to describe what I mean so I'll just leave it at this. I also do not have any experience in playing Axe-fx. For all I know it might totally suck too!

Cheers!
bManic

[Hink]

You want to talk about feel? Let me tell you, if I crank up my halfstack you begin to feel it in places a sim can never reach and tbh that feel (and tone) varies greatly from one amp to another.

You are still obviously missing my point and take the word "Feel" too literally. I do not know what english word to use.

For instance, on a POD it is much, MUCH, harder to get a sustaining pinch harmonic, at any interval, than on a real amp. I do not know why this is so but it just is. So, if Axe-FX is modeled more precisely in this "sensory" department (mechanical? better word?) it is a huge leap forward from the other amp sims.

Anyhow, I clearly do not have the words to describe what I mean so I'll just leave it at this. I also do not have any experience in playing Axe-fx. For all I know it might totally suck too!

Cheers!
bManic

well at least this time you say "much harder", last time we went here I think you said "impossible". For the record, it still is not hard for me at all in fact I think I over do squeals, but that's not limited to PODs...

[bmanic]

.. or you simply do not listen to the resulting "squeal" as intently as I do? You might be happy with something that I consider being pretty useless.

Also, I'm talking about pinch harmonics (as in the old thread) while playing clean tones. If you have heavy overdrive then sure, pinches are easy to achieve (they still sound weaker on amp sims though) but try using clean tones.

Cheers!
bManic

[Hink]

.. or you simply do not listen to the resulting "squeal" as intently as I do? You might be happy with something that I consider being pretty useless.

Also, I'm talking about pinch harmonics (as in the old thread) while playing clean tones. If you have heavy overdrive then sure, pinches are easy to achieve (they still sound weaker on amp sims though) but try using clean tones.

Cheers!
bManic

now it's my not listening as intently as you?? My settling for less than you? I have no time for this kind of egotistical crap. I have no problems getting any squeal from my PODs, I'm truly sorry you do.

fwiw it's worth, squeals especially clean squeals are made and lost before the input stage...

[A3ntar]

The weird part about the Axe-FX is how all the users rave that it plays and reacts awesome like the real amp, but then when you hear the samples (and I heard a lot), it is just really only a bit better than your typicaly good ampsim.

My concern is that it might be a subliminal form of auto-justification for the $$$ spend on this unit or a form of the emperor's new clothes syndrome.

[shogger]

The weird part about the Axe-FX is how all the users rave that it plays and reacts awesome like the real amp, but then when you hear the samples (and I heard a lot), it is just really only a bit better than your typicaly good ampsim.

My concern is that it might be a subliminal form of auto-justification for the $$$ spend on this unit or a form of the emperor's new clothes syndrome.

Nah,

after all it's not a Virus. Or a 303, or a REAL Boogie, or ...

Shogger

[AndrewSimon]

The weird part about the Axe-FX is how all the users rave that it plays and reacts awesome like the real amp, but then when you hear the samples (and I heard a lot), it is just really only a bit better than your typicaly good ampsim.

My concern is that it might be a subliminal form of auto-justification for the $$$ spend on this unit or a form of the emperor's new clothes syndrome.

Every AXE-FX comes with "30 Day Satisfaction Guaranteed".
You can try it out in your home/studio for 30 days and if you are not happy, you can return it for a full refund.

My 30 days are almost up but there is no way I'm returning it!

[Hink]

why, did you scratch it the first day or something

[bmanic]

.. or you simply do not listen to the resulting "squeal" as intently as I do? You might be happy with something that I consider being pretty useless.

Also, I'm talking about pinch harmonics (as in the old thread) while playing clean tones. If you have heavy overdrive then sure, pinches are easy to achieve (they still sound weaker on amp sims though) but try using clean tones.

Cheers!
bManic

now it's my not listening as intently as you?? My settling for less than you? I have no time for this kind of egotistical crap. I have no problems getting any squeal from my PODs, I'm truly sorry you do.

Or how about you consider the possibility that we listen differently? There is nothing egoistical about that. It just seems like you "need to be right" all the time. Time to drop this little topic as it can't be discussed without you taking everything personal..

fwiw it's worth, squeals especially clean squeals are made and lost before the input stage...

And what the hell does that mean?

It's very simple what I tried to tell you:

Real amp = I barely touch the strings with the pick/thumb combo -> results in a nice harmonic
POD/Behringer Guitar thing = I need to hit that string very hard -> results in a vague, weak harmonic that doesn't sustain. And you blame the player?

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

The word/meaning that I was actually looking for earlier was this:

It takes more "effort" to play most of the guitar simulations than it does to play a cranked real amplifier.

It's kind of a similar situation when trying to play 'flight of the bumblebee', transcribed for piano by Rachmaninoff, on your average, made in wherever, upright piano, compared to playing that same piece on a highly precise, good sounding concert grand piano.

Anyhow.. I was going to drop this subject so I don't know why I bother.

Cheers!
bManic