Kirnu - The Arpeggiator 1.0 released

[bailees7irish]

Well if things are getting a bit complicated I'll use Bidule vst, but for simple stuff I like to see them directly in reaper's mixer.

example using bidule, and it's just the top of the iceberg, using a few groups and subgroups:



Try that with hardware

Wow that is pure madness i would be soo lost!
I bet my brain's connections are looking something like this, though there are stuff that is routed totally wrong, haha

[Compyfox]

So when you need 5 audio fx as inserts you're routing them thru 5 tracks like the good all days ? why not,,

No, you don't have them "parallel", you connect them in series with hardware. God, people sure are spoiled with the simplicity and unlimited use of software nowadays!

I like to have all my fx (midi and audio) on a single track with the instruments, it's so much easier to create complex layers. Any host should let you do that, imo.

Then ask the developer to develop a "compilant" MIDI Plugin for Cubase, Sonar and what-the-heck else. IIRC, that's the MFX format. Else it's a "virtual instrument" - a control device indeed, but it's still an "instrument", not FX!

Like I said, Reaper is an exception on ALL ENDS! You can use "VSTi", Inserts and other crap on one channel "the same time", since it's built that way. It unlocks certain "limits" of the VST standard, with some drawbacks (or why else do you think that A LOT of users scream for bugs in Reaper first!).

If everything else fails, use a modular hosts as routing environment. Nothing to blame on the developer or the host creators. They're not "old" or "undiscerning", they just stick to their own rules and standards.

Want that changed, create your own host.

[standalone]

(or why else do you think that A LOT of users scream for bugs in Reaper first!).

The bugs in Reaper are always someone else's fault, didn't you know?. Reaper does things by the book, Reaper is fully compliant, Reaper is never wrong.

[mbncp]

Then ask the developer to develop a "compilant" MIDI Plugin for Cubase, Sonar and what-the-heck else. IIRC, that's the MFX format. Else it's a "virtual instrument" - a control device indeed, but it's still an "instrument", not FX!

VST is a very good standard to creadte MIDI fx, not perfect, but you can do pretty much anything.
Where I'm complaining is that these major host allow midi plug as inserts but why use a different standard for this.
It would be a huge job to write these plugs in the other format, and except max for live, they are all abandonware, no support, no update in years.

And speaking about reliability I have less problems with my ~30 commercial plugs using reaper than with live (8.2) or cubase(5). Live is crashing very often with some plugs. Cubase has a nasty bug where plugs like geist or others with a sequencer will loose the first beat on play start.
I havn't used sonar in the last 2 years so I can't comment.

Anyway, that's not the point, all host have their strength, my only complain is that it's a pain to use vst based midi plugs with those other hosts that I still like to use. VST has become the standard for midi, how many of those use a different standard ? :
http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode=re ... =1&rpp=100)

[Compyfox]

The bugs in Reaper are always someone else's fault, didn't you know?. Reaper does things by the book, Reaper is fully compliant, Reaper is never wrong.

Riiiight...

VST is a very good standard to creadte MIDI fx, not perfect, but you can do pretty much anything.

Okay...

Where I'm complaining is that these major host allow midi plug as inserts but why use a different standard for this.
It would be a huge job to write these plugs in the other format, and except max for live, they are all abandonware, no support, no update in years.

You said it yourself, ton of work to port otherwise. And btw... MAX was abandonned before "Live" picked it up again. And now? Only for Live... what of an evolution indeed.

And speaking about reliability I have less problems with my ~30 commercial plugs using reaper than with live (8.2) or cubase(5). Live is crashing very often with some plugs. Cubase has a nasty bug where plugs like geist or others with a sequencer will loose the first beat on play start.
I havn't used sonar in the last 2 years so I can't comment.

Well boo-ya. Do you think writing a VSTi(!) for one host primarily means that it works in another flawlessly? How old is GEIST? Is it just "recycled code"? What VST "Standard" is it? How much is Reaper "forgiving" for buggy plugins?

Oh wait... Reaper is "perfect".

Oh Please... cut the crap.

Anyway, that's not the point, all host have their strength, my only complain is that it's a pain to use vst based midi plugs with those other hosts that I still like to use. VST has become the standard for midi, how many of those use a different standard ?

First of all, VST is NOT a MIDI standard. VST stands for Virtual Studio Technology and was initially made for the Audio Realm (only!) or Cubase's internal instruments. It's control language and communication is "based upon MIDI", it's not pure "MIDI Standard". On top of it, and while we're being nitpicky...

VST = Virtual Studio Technology EFFECTs
VSTi= Virtual Studio Technolgy INSTRUMENTS (hence the small i)

Link to the KVR Database with some random selected "MIDI" Plugins)

So... Alien7 Cantaya (probably written wrong) uses the VSTi interface to "control" other synths, same with the ChordSpace VSTi and many other of those listed plugins. Like I said, would it be in MFX (which does stand for MIDI FX for a reason!), you could use it in your so loved simplicity as MIDI insert within Cubase, and not as VSTi in the rack (like you "should be" used to from using hardware instruments!).

But... MFX was something "special" from Sonar times, and there was only a (buggy) wrapper for Steinberg's Cubase (sub SX3 times).

Again, if Reason doesn't play by the rules... so be it. If you don't like a modular environment - cool. But it's not the fault of the developer or the host creator to stick to "what's available" and have to play within their boundaries.

If you want to change something - become a developer and do so!



Now can we please go back to discussing KIRNU?
Thanks a lot!

[mbncp]

If you want to change something - become a developer and do so!

I created mfxscript, modified a couple of mfxwrapper to be used with cubase and wrote about 100 midi plugs (mainly vst but also, mfx, vstma and standalone).
I actually stopped making my plugs public due to the lack of support from major host


But you're right, back to KIRNU.


@ Arto
Probably you got a bit submerged by all the donations you received, but a little thank you doesn't hurt, even if it's just 20€.

Anyway the plug is really nice and even if I'm not too much an arp guy, it's nice to have one on those lazy days, and Kirnu is particularly brilliant, well done.

Thanks

[Arde2]

@ Arto
Probably you got a bit submerged by all the donations you received, but a little thank you doesn't hurt, even if it's just 20€.

It is not that I'm not appreciating all the donations I have received; I'm actually quite busy at the moment. Yeah I know bad excuse

Thank all for you donations, feedback, presets and all you have done for me. I'll promise to make Kirnu even better it is today. Keep posting your comments, feature requests and bug reports.

I'll try to answer to all your question. If I miss some please notify me or ask again.

Thanks,
-Arto

[mbncp]

If you're asking:

I would love to be able to switch preset using the modwheel.

Modwheel all the way down, just bypass the midi as is (disabled)

Then a few intermediate positions (how many should be an option) would allow different presets to run and this without glitches.

I say modwheel(CC1) but should be a option as well.


Btw, it seems that you are blocking other messages, would be nice to let them go thru (aftertouch, cc that have no use for kirnu,..)

[draft14]

Any plans to make 64 bit version?

[Arglebargle]

This seems a bit unstable for me, I got a few lockups last nite which I normally never get. I'm running Windows 7 64-bit with the 32-bit version of Sonar 8. Everything else I use generally runs great with that combination. Pretty interesting plugin but not for me I'm afraid.

[Compyfox]

I actually stopped making my plugs public due to the lack of support from major host

Then your argumentation was somewhat invalid, no?
Fight against it, release the "wrappers" again - maybe this might be "the" workaround for "a lot of users" - and the workaround for you as well?

[mbncp]

I actually stopped making my plugs public due to the lack of support from major host

Then your argumentation was somewhat invalid, no?
Fight against it, release the "wrappers" again - maybe this might be "the" workaround for "a lot of users" - and the workaround for you as well?

This was an mfx to vstma wrapper not vst to vstma (steinberg midi insert format). I couldn't fix everything as some bugs were within cubase, they told me in 2004(?) that they would fix it in the next build (was sx2.x) but it was never fixed.Worse, some of my native vstma plugs stopped working with Cubase4, and as they never updated the sdk these plugs are now dead.
At some point I had in mind to create a VST-MIDI to vstma wrapper but it was actually easier to move to reaper, not the perfect host for everything and everyone, but it fits my needs pretty well so you'll have to ask steinberg if you want a wrapper

I stopped making my plugs public for different reasons but one of them was that I was getting tired to get all these mails about people having problems using them in cubase, fl studio, sonar,... especially with setting them up but, but for other reasons as well. Btw, when steinberg introduced vst3 all midi plugs couldn't send midi cc and sysex anymore and that for an entire year. CC was fixed but sysex loss hasn't been fixed afaik. Reaper has no problem receiving/sending sysex to/from my hardware synths, and as I have a bunch of them ...

Sonar has a funny bug too, as each time that you use a track to host your vst-midi plugs it will delay the midi by an entire audio buffer size. Don't know if this has been fixed in the mean time. And a few other things that I don't recall now.

Currently you have too be a little insane to create midi plugs, but I hope to see more nice plugs like this and maybe at some point those host will start to make them available as inserts as well and fix related issues.

[Guenon]

Thank all for you donations, feedback, presets and all you have done for me. I'll promise to make Kirnu even better it is today. Keep posting your comments, feature requests and bug reports.

Having now tested this plugin I must say it's indeed very good! There's very solid attention to detail like the "teach" buttons for the CC, and an overall feel of quality. Thanks again!

One suggestion:

In my opinion, the one single thing that would cement Kirnu's status as a true instant classic would be the ability to comfortably work with more than one pattern. I mean something like an automatable pattern selector dial that you could use to switch between patterns on the fly. This could perhaps also be a specifiable key switch range (so that one could switch to a particular pattern by hitting a corresponding low octave key, for example).

The main thing is, when switching a pattern using controls like described above, Kirnu would be able to seamlessly continue playing the note(s) you're holding at that moment, jumping to another pattern.

[mbncp]

One thing I'm missing from most arps is an option to turn it on only once you have a given number of notes playing.
1 would be like now, setting the option to 2 would play the first note normally, and as soon as second note is being played the arp would start to play.
That would be some Min Notes option.

Then a Max Notes option would be nice too, if set at 4, only the 3 first notes would arpegiate, but the 4th,5th,.. ones would play normally.

It may be a little tricky to implement, but would be a nice way to add a personal touch to the phrases.

[Compyfox]

Seeing as on the GUI is written "Demo Version", I think all the suggestions and FR's might go into a commercial version or v2. The Sknote.it concept mayhaps? Though v2 of RoundTone wasn't planned that soon.