Synths with the snappiest envelopes

[Mutant]

BTW IDK if it fits the definition of snappy but i like the kick on Moroders new song:

[fluffy_little_something]

Moroder is still alive?!

Just tried to make a little bass drum, sounds promising already, might try to improve it later today
https://app.box.com/s/slyk89iobxbx2vv8fbnzv34wjiqczoe8

[Touch The Universe]

from 90%-100 adds a few seconds I know. so at the least 0-10 isn't that, so I'd not linear.

[Gonga]

I would say it is a small percentage that have the punch DIVA has...it's not an on/off phenomenon, but a matter of degree. For example, Arturia's synths can do it, but not anything like DIVA. Some have argued that it is quantifiable with oscilloscope, but there aren't many who have the know-how to objectively compare.

Can you post the patch ?
I would like to check it with with Signal Analyzer.
(Assuming you made that clearplastic clip, not just linked it).

Here are my patches of that era...they may have been created with an older version of DIVA. You'll find a number of them have that attack.

http://danling.com/studio/sounds/diva/Danz/

[Gonga]

https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling/clearplastic

See now that doesn't sound punchy at all to me - it just sound like a very unmusical click before each note. It has no weight behind it - it doesn't sound like it's part of the sound at all - it sounds more like an extra sound that's been 'stuck' on the front. And this is my general experience of envelopes in softsynths (there are one or two exceptions but Diva isn't one of them) - no 'real' snap.

Well, I used no compression and wasn't going for a punchy sound on this one actually - just wanted a powerful click to make it obvious when the note re-triggers. Let me ask you, what other synth is capable of that kind of very loud click? Please post examples if you can.

[Gonga]

I agree, that has nothing to do with punch in my view. Sounds like uncontrolled noise to me.
I think the best kind of patch to try is an old-skool kick drum, i.e. not the modern exaggerated kind with long decay, but an emulation of a real Ludwig kick drum or something like that.

It may sound uncontrolled to you, but it is not. That click can be lowered or raised in volume with respect to the rest of the note, and it can be lengthened, etc. Look, it's obvious many of you are not familiar with these two synth giants - they used this sort of patch to huge effect for many years, not only with great success, but to inspire multiple generations to follow. I have posted many times many examples where these kinds of patches were usd, powerfully, by these two giant synthesists.

Here are examples where Hammer used such patches (70s and 80s):

http://danling.com/studio/sounds/HammerAttacks.wav

If you are intimately familiar with older analog synths, then you know they had this character. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant to my point - the mini, for example did this, and DIVA does it, and does it better than any VA I've heard, or that anyone has posted examples of that I've ever heard, including you. That is all!

By the way, I used to set up drums for recording, and can tell you that kick drums sound like this if you remove their resonance. Zappa used to deaden the shit out of his kicks, until what was left was this very in-your-face punchy click - or whatever you want to call such a short envelope.

[do_androids_dream]

https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling/clearplastic

See now that doesn't sound punchy at all to me - it just sound like a very unmusical click before each note. It has no weight behind it - it doesn't sound like it's part of the sound at all - it sounds more like an extra sound that's been 'stuck' on the front. And this is my general experience of envelopes in softsynths (there are one or two exceptions but Diva isn't one of them) - no 'real' snap.

Well, I used no compression and wasn't going for a punchy sound on this one actually - just wanted a powerful click to make it obvious when the note re-triggers. Let me ask you, what other synth is capable of that kind of very loud click? Please post examples if you can.

Here's DIVA with a punchy envelope...

... It seems that you were. That click serves no purpose in any musical context I can think of so I can't see any use of trying to find a synth that does something similar. Even Vaz did something similar - it just collapses after a certain point and becomes this honky, nasal thunk instead of a pleasing, punchy sound (like, say a Pro One or an ARP2600 does). You can, of course, achieve good punch with a softsynth (in a mix) with certain processing (transient enhancers/compression etc).

Also, I see little point in posting examples personally - people just hear what they want to hear anyway and there is a certain amount of subjective taste to all this.

[do_androids_dream]

http://danling.com/studio/sounds/HammerAttacks.wav

If you are intimately familiar with older analog synths, then you know they had this character. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant to my point - the mini, for example did this, and DIVA does it, and does it better than any VA I've heard, or that anyone has posted examples of that I've ever heard, including you. That is all!

By the way, I used to set up drums for recording, and can tell you that kick drums sound like this if you remove their resonance. Zappa used to deaden the shit out of his kicks, until what was left was this very in-your-face punchy click - or whatever you want to call such a short envelope.

In that example I would say that the envelope is too short - like you say regarding kick drums - it sounds like a portion of a kick drum attack has been glued on to the front of the synth. It just doesn't sound very good (taste maybe?) to me - easing it off slightly would be more musical.

[Gamma-UT]

That click serves no purpose in any musical context I can think of so I can't see any use of trying to find a synth that does something similar.

Maybe you can't, but that doesn't mean someone else has to change their approach because you've got a different idea of what sounds can and should do. The Chamberlin/Mellotron* flute solo in Bowie's Big Brother from Diamond Dogs uses exactly that kind of click - basically it's the click of the tape switching in (very close mic position I guess) and serves much the same purpose as the click on an old electric organ. Which, guess what, can have a prominent click.

[fluffy_little_something]

It may sound uncontrolled to you, but it is not. That click can be lowered or raised in volume with respect to the rest of the note, and it can be lengthened, etc. Look, it's obvious many of you are not familiar with these two synth giants - they used this sort of patch to huge effect for many years, not only with great success, but to inspire multiple generations to follow. I have posted many times many examples where these kinds of patches were usd, powerfully, by these two giant synthesists.

Here are examples where Hammer used such patches (70s and 80s):

http://danling.com/studio/sounds/HammerAttacks.wav

If you are intimately familiar with older analog synths, then you know they had this character. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant to my point - the mini, for example did this, and DIVA does it, and does it better than any VA I've heard, or that anyone has posted examples of that I've ever heard, including you. That is all!

By the way, I used to set up drums for recording, and can tell you that kick drums sound like this if you remove their resonance. Zappa used to deaden the shit out of his kicks, until what was left was this very in-your-face punchy click - or whatever you want to call such a short envelope.

Well, the click in your file simply sounded superfluous, inconsistent and unmusical, even irritating because it is way too loud relative to the lead sound. It is very different than, say, the click of a Rhodes piano or kick drum.

In your hammer audio, is there even a synth in it? I don't think so. I hear the bass drum, but it is not part of another sound and it sounds cleaner and more pleasant.

[do_androids_dream]

That click serves no purpose in any musical context I can think of so I can't see any use of trying to find a synth that does something similar.

Maybe you can't, but that doesn't mean someone else has to change their approach because you've got a different idea of what sounds can and should do. The Chamberlin/Mellotron* flute solo in Bowie's Big Brother from Diamond Dogs uses exactly that kind of click - basically it's the click of the tape switching in (very close mic position I guess) and serves much the same purpose as the click on an old electric organ. Which, guess what, can have a prominent click.

Yeah like I say - taste is involved too. The click of the tape on a mellotron or the click of a rhodes are both rather lovely sounds - it doesn't sound much like that synth envelope click to me though.

[chk071]

When i talk about snappy, i don't mean that attack click either. I don't see a musical use for it in the kind of music i mean to make too. Might be useful for others, but not for me so much. It's not an indicator for particularly fast envelopes either IMO.

[Gonga]

In your hammer audio, is there even a synth in it? I don't think so. I hear the bass drum, but it is not part of another sound and it sounds cleaner and more pleasant.

Wow, are you kidding? The first snip is a power trio - bass, drums, and lead synth. Another one uses the effect on bass. Every one has a synth using this sound...oh well!

Anyway, you ignore my point, again, which is that DIVA CAN DO THIS SOUND that minimoogs and other analogs do using the exact same technique. It IS the envelope, not a click, and it's the same freaking sound that minimoogs and others could do - using precisely the same technique (a tad of sustain ONLY in the VCA envelope). My point, again, is that it is an authentic characteristic of analogs that DIVA does, and that other VAs cannot. Maybe you could speak to my actual point for change...rather than my "poor taste" (which share with George Duke and Jan Hammer), since the thread is about comparing DIVA to analog synths. This is an authentic characteristic of analogs - a blasting attack - that DIVA does better than other VAs.

Anyway, it is frustrating to repeat facts that are just ignored or irrelevantly judged, so ...

[do_androids_dream]

...since the thread is about comparing DIVA to analog synths.

No, that's the other thread... too many ana vs digi threads lately lol

[fluffy_little_something]

In your hammer audio, is there even a synth in it? I don't think so. I hear the bass drum, but it is not part of another sound and it sounds cleaner and more pleasant.

Wow, are you kidding? The first snip is a power trio - bass, drums, and lead synth. Another one uses the effect on bass. Every one has a synth using this sound...oh well!

Anyway, you ignore my point, again, which is that DIVA CAN DO THIS SOUND that minimoogs and other analogs do using the exact same technique. It IS the envelope, not a click, and it's the same freaking sound that minimoogs and others could do - using precisely the same technique (a tad of sustain ONLY in the VCA envelope). My point, again, is that it is an authentic characteristic of analogs that DIVA does, and that other VAs cannot. Maybe you could speak to my actual point for change...rather than my "poor taste" (which share with George Duke and Jan Hammer), since the thread is about comparing DIVA to analog synths. This is an authentic characteristic of analogs - a blasting attack - that DIVA does better than other VAs.

Anyway, it is frustrating to repeat facts that are just ignored or irrelevantly judged, so ...

Yes, there are synths in it, I had listened to only a few secs and that at very low volume because I was not alone, sounded like very old hectic stuff, which I don't like so much, so I abandoned it after a few secs

I don't like that type of attack no matter who uses it, it sounds hard.