Do you ever think compressors, suck?

[magicmusic]

magicmusic, your limiter example is pretty good, you can hear the distortion in the treble easily, it's a quality of limiters I dislike. That mix really needs some work, man!

now i understand wy there not much post examples In theory and praxis distortion in treble should not happen(it is distortion guitar with wah btw) with loudmax limiter, because this limiter is slow and with 6 db it can only hear as pumping. distortion get only when use faster attack and release

Edit: The example i have done with reaper function "save live output do disk". this record all i do in reaper. so all 3 versions (no limiter, 3db more 6 db more are in this track).

[pixel85]

Do you realise that brickwall limiter is not the same as compressor? Different tool for different task. Brickwall limiter must be applied at the end of mastering chain when whole mix is done and when mastering is done. Never ever before. If you're using it wrong way then it's natural thing that it sounds bad.
Btw you talking about different tool than compressor. 6dB of gain reduction is definitely too much for brickwall limiter and it's totally unprofessional way to make louder track. I can't blame tool for being used in wrong way. Your example shows nothing as brickwall limiter shouldn't be used that way.

[camsr]

If you're using it wrong way then it's natural thing that it sounds bad.
Btw you talking about different tool than compressor.

So I guess the question is, how many ways can a compressor (or limiter) sound good?

[magicmusic]

Do you realise that brickwall limiter is not the same as compressor? Different tool for different task. Brickwall limiter must be applied at the end of mastering chain when whole mix is done and when mastering is done. Never ever before. If you're using it wrong way then it's natural thing that it sounds bad.
Btw you talking about different tool than compressor. 6dB of gain reduction is definitely too much for brickwall limiter and it's totally unprofessional way to make louder track. I can't blame tool for being used in wrong way. Your example shows nothing as brickwall limiter shouldn't be used that way.

the intro post is this

What I hate about compressors is how they modify the frequency spectrum, making one band sound good at the expense of another. Yet I've never seen one that could make anything sound good all the time. Constant adjustments and judicious knob turning feels like facism to me. Tell me I'm wrong, tell me that compressors are good.

and my answer is if he want an easy way he can try loudmax(its donationware) and look if it compress not more as 3db (can see with a bar). then is written here that 3db is nothing. so i do a quick example with RAW(No EQ Setting from my side and sound good on my speakers) of drumloop, and guitar with distort and can hear that 3db is good hearable louder. and i use 6db setting to make clear that bad results get, when it use too much. brickwall limiter is only a other name, but in theory and programming it is as compressor very simular but more easy to use. you can set threshold value and the ratio in compressor is named as the DB slider. When set the threshold to good value, the breath in of singer is not get louder and vocal sound better. sure you can use a softknee compressor, but this have more settings.

[Uncle E]

My mastering chain consists of no less than 5 compressors, limiters, and clippers, one of which is a multiband compressor with individual compressors and clippers on 3 mid bands and 3 side bands. That might sound like a lot but the non-multibands are only doing around 1dB GR each (sometimes 2-3dB on the first compressor if I'm specifically going for a pumping effect). Stacking dynamics processors like that helps a lot to remove the negative effects of compression while still provide by lots of stability and loudness.

FWIW, I never hit a brickwall limiter harder than 1dB. All those crushed, broken up sounding hip hop recordings from the early 2000's were from engineers hitting Waves L2 too hard.

[kelldammit]

A question came up in another thread, it was "why don't more compressors have mix knobs?"
It is obviously a marketing strategy.

No, it's not just marketing. Some compressors (like the ArtsAcoustic CL Series, for instance) can introduce enough difference to cause phase issues against a dry track in "normal" parallel compression usage (comp on a dupe track, blended in via the two faders). Hence the mix knob. This is addressed specifically in the user manual.
For those comps that may not introduce such issues in parallel, the mix knob still saves users the extra steps normally required to achieve the same end.

By crossfading good compression with the input, it's subconsciously interpreted as rejecting the product! And then users may not talk about it as much as another product, which is bad.

Only if one doesn't understand what the feature is actually for. For those that do (and use it frequently), the argument might well be more along the lines of "No mix knob=extra steps. Walk on by."

[magicmusic]

FWIW, I never hit a brickwall limiter harder than 1dB. All those crushed, broken up sounding hip hop recordings from the early 2000's were from engineers hitting Waves L2 too hard.

Have you try out loudmax ?. loudmax is a lookahead Limiter. Which mean it can reduce level a little before the loud peak happen. most other and all analog emulations do not look forward. so they are more worse It is really better than other. I test W1 Limiter which test as be good. But it sound with 3db very pumping or distort when have low attack. maybe somebody know other lookforward compressor or limiter. let us know. I prefer limiter because they are more easy to adjust, and special when do vocal recordings give better results(because they do not boost breath in noise of singer) and really can be sure no distortion if sing too loud

[bungle]

Nothing worse than joe "i believe everything on the internet" average using a compressor and EQ on every single track in their mix, ending up with a stagnant, flat, uninteresting pile of ....... mix with your ears/volume/pan and then if you have issues fix them, beyond that use a compressor for distortion or stay away from them, they do more damage than good in most peoples hands.

[pixel85]

brickwall limiter is only a other name, but in theory and programming it is as compressor very simular but more easy to use. you can set threshold value and the ratio in compressor is named as the DB slider. When set the threshold to good value, the breath in of singer is not get louder and vocal sound better. sure you can use a softknee compressor, but this have more settings.

No. Brickwall Limiter is not just another name for compressor. You talking about normal limiter which is compressor with high Ratio (above 10:1). Brickwall limiter/Maximizer (like LoudMax) is totally different beast with ratio 'infinite:1' and it process signal different way by boosting WHOLE signal and by cutting (clipping or different methods) of peaks that exceed threshold level (there's also lookahead technique to give time for maximiser to work out these peaks). Compressors doesn't work that way. The artifacts you talked about are coming from cutting peaks (clipping) and it is audible because you have used brickwall limiter in wrong way as I said earlier. Try compressor, limiter, even peak limiter like 1176 and LoudMax with high threshold and then check waveform. Look what happen with peaks. Even with 1176 peaks gonna still be there. With LoudMax you will get square wave where peaks are drastically removed.

Ps if you want to play with free brickwall limiter, check TB Barricade which is free addon to ComputMusic magazine. For me it's much better tool for this job than LoudMax

[pixel85]

Nothing worse than joe "i believe everything on the internet" average using a compressor and EQ on every single track in their mix, ending up with a stagnant, flat, uninteresting pile of ....... mix with your ears/volume/pan and then if you have issues fix them, beyond that use a compressor for distortion or stay away from them, they do more damage than good in most peoples hands.

It's what I'm talking about: put maximiser (not even compressor) on untreated mix and complain that it sound bad. It's the effect when youtube (and random people on forums) instead of school become your 'teacher'

[magicmusic]

Ps if you want to play with free brickwall limiter, check TB Barricade which is free addon to ComputMusic magazine. For me it's much better tool for this job than LoudMax

I test tb barricade now, you are right, this give better results as loudmax. tb barricade is too a look ahead Limiter. I think more better is a Limiter with a choosable threshold and compression change option. Do you know something as this ?. if this parameter can change then with look ahead it is better as a compressor.

brickwall limiter compress too at end, only disadvantage is the value for treshhold and ratio can not change by user. in compare to Compressor this is much better solution for singer or guys that record real instruments with high dynamic as snare or drums trumpet or so. at lower range you not loose dynamic. and for singers it not increase breath in noise. only if sing over a specific level (depend on the DB slider) it compress and avoid distortion. I have records from some famous youtuber singer and before they use the limiter they have loud breath in in their songs and sometimes(when then sing with a little more power there come crackle due to clipping). with a look ahead limiter can be sure, no distortion happen, but better of course is, if the limiter is not limit to brickwall. and the limiter have choosable treshhold and Ratio setting. against such a look ahead limiter, a compressor sucks really

[jens]

Magicmusic, you are really killing the thread with your clueless nonsense, your lack of knowledge and skills and your terrible English*. There is no point in arguing this with someone like you.

Adios thread.




*and I think this is the first time I ever say something like this - I normally applaud everyone for trying to communicate in a language that is not the own native one - but if it goes together will ignorance, lack of knowledge and so forth...

[samsam]

Nope

[jens]

Sonicstate? No, I don't think so...

edit: no, completely different guy

[samsam]

Sonicstate? No, I don't think so...

edit: no, completely different guy

Sorry, my bad.