KVR Audio

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:08 pm

I added most of my additional demos posted above to my list at page 6 of this thread and also to the OP (after the pianos list).

If wished i could also add the demos of fmr to the OP.

PS:
Besides the deoms taht alraedy exist in the web (at the develoepr websites, YouTube etc.) so far we did not have demos of the big and/or expesive libraries from e.g. Galaxy, Ivory II, Quantum Leap Pianos, Ravenscroft 275, Vi Labs True Keys Pianos, Impact Soundworks Pearl Concert Grand andthe new official Bechstein Digital etc. so it would be nice to have demos of this here too.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:46 pm

I just tried the Bosendorfer 290 that came included in Quantum Leap Goliath (which I got in a promotion last month). I am not sure, but it seems like one of the pianos included in the Quantum Leap. Of course, here I only have one mic position, but I still have 18 layers, and have the advantages of the Play engine. The sound is very good, indeed. I will come up with some renderings soon

Of course, I also would like to have renderings of the most expensive pianos, preferably using the same MIDI files, for a more direct comparison... The Vienna Imperial is one of those I would love to hear "in the real world". The demos in the VSL site are simply amazing.

PALU · Post by **PALU** » Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:07 pm

fmr wrote:I just tried the Bosendorfer 290 that came included in Quantum Leap Goliath (which I got in a promotion last month). I am not sure, but it seems like one of the pianos included in the Quantum Leap. Of course, here I only have one mic position, but I still have 18 layers, and have the advantages of the Play engine. The sound is very good, indeed. I will come up with some renderings soon

I like this one very much!

And for a more general thought - I find that I can't really find a suitable piano library for me, not really because of the sound, but because of the playability. When I listen to them - many sound very good for me (I'm not a classical pianist). But when I play them - many lack the feel of a real instrument. I have to try more Arturia V-Piano - that gets such high notes here

.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:37 pm

szalonykp wrote: And for a more general thought - I find that I can't really find a suitable piano library for me, not really because of the sound, but because of the playability. When I listen to them - many sound very good for me (I'm not a classical pianist). But when I play them - many lack the feel of a real instrument. I have to try more Arturia V-Piano - that gets such high notes here .

Try True Pianos too. In terms of playability it is wonderful, and the price/performance ratio is unbeatable IMO.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:48 pm

After some more tweaking of teh preset used for my previous demos i just created a new preset for Arturia Piano V.
Overall it seems to be more bright/aggressive (at least at higher velocity and/or higher octaves) with a good low end.

Here are some audio demos for it (external compressor and Reverb used):
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.1_Piano V_v2
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.1_Piano V_v2
Chopin - Revolutionary Etude, Op 10 No 12_Piano V_v2
Mozart - Turkish March, KV331 mvt.3_Piano V_v2
Jordan Rudess - Grand Illusion_Piano V_v2
Space Oddity_Piano V_v2

UPDATE:
Like earlier demos i added those to my collection/list at page 6 and in the OP too.

ftech · Post by **ftech** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:28 am

Ingonator wrote: A) Imperfect Samples Fazioli Ebony Concert Grand Basic:

Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.1_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.2_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.3_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.1_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.3_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Beethoven - Für Elise_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Mozart - Turkish March, KV331 mvt.3_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Debussy - Claire De Lune_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Chopin - Revolutionary Etude, Op 10 No 12_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano
Chopin Op 39_IS Fazioli Ebony Piano

Anyway i am quite impresed by the Imperfect Samples Fazioli, especially as this is "only" the smallest and cheapest Basic version (for around 55 €). I could imagine that the Extreme version (262 GB opposing to 7 GB for the Basic) must be really stunning. Same for some otehr Fazioli libraries while the approach taht Imperfect Sampes uses seems to be quite unique.
The Imperfect Samples Fazioli seems to have a very full tone with a graet low end and especially at medium velocity and in the mid key range could sound very warm.
One of my favorite audio demos from those above is the Fazioli playing Beethoven Moonlight Sonata mvt.1.
Simply beautiful IMO.
.

Thanks for this Ingo!
I had been looking for a nice, warm sounding piano to add to my collection, and I think that it may be the Ebony Grand after hearing your demos.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:01 am

ftech wrote: Thanks for this Ingo!
I had been looking for a nice, warm sounding piano to add to my collection, and I think that it may be the Ebony Grand after hearing your demos.

At the previous page i also psted a few more demos inluding 2 new MIDI files and also using an additional EQ and showing how an overall increased velocity value of the notes could change the sound..

A few remarks about the library which are maybe not so obvious, also from the info at the website:

- I used the Basic version which is the cheapest (around 55 €) and smallest (1 microphone position) while it is still 7GB uncompressed. There are alse the Pro, Complete and Extreme versions (in the shop upgrades available for teh next higher version). Extreme version has 162 GB with 5 position and both "imperfect" and "perfect" samples. The bigger versions also have more velocity layers compared to 8 in the Basic version while teh Extreme version seems to hae the most.
A description for each version is available here (differnt tabs at the top for each version):
http://www.imperfectsamples.com/website ... _basic.php

- this does not seem to use a specific copy protection while random samples seem to be watermarked with your name/e-mail

- It is not compatible with Kontakt player so you would either need full Kontakt of teh Imperfect Samples Player plugin (have not tried that yet as i have Kontakt 5)

- The GUI contains only very few controls (for the Basic version Round Robin nki file only Round Robin On(Off and Release samples volume) but you could find a velocity curve if you use the edit button for the Kontakt instrument (the wrench symbol). Ij The comlete and Exteme version teher also seems to be a nki file wit ha mixer for mic positions while usually those mic poitions just represent a differnt kind of sound and better should be used alone like the developer mentioned somewhere.

- Except wit hteh "perfect" samples in the Extreme version there is some hammer noise included with the samples. Not sure how this is differnt with differnt mic position as i only got one in the Basic version.

- The Basic version also includes "FX" nki file to add a.g. pedal noise etc. while so far i did not find those so much useful. Those are seperate nki files and have to be loaded/layered additionally to the main nki file.

- The different velocity response compared to other libraries is also as the velocity layers are not spread evenly (e.g. layer 1 1-9, layer 2 9-18 etc.) like in most other libraries. This way it is more easy to reach a more mellow sound while at higher velocity it could also get more bright.

- For a brighter sound you could also try using an EQ. At the moment when using an EQ i tried boosting at aroun 2500 Hz and 5700 Hz. The highs at around 9-10 lHz do not seem to bmake a big differnce but you could bosst those too if you like. Biggest differnce sems to be at 2500 Hz.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:37 am

Ingonator wrote:After some more tweaking of teh preset used for my previous demos i just created a new preset for Arturia Piano V.
Overall it seems to be more bright/aggressive (at least at higher velocity and/or higher octaves) with a good low end.

Here are some audio demos for it (external compressor and Reverb used):
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.1_Piano V_v2
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.1_Piano V_v2
Chopin - Revolutionary Etude, Op 10 No 12_Piano V_v2
Mozart - Turkish March, KV331 mvt.3_Piano V_v2
Jordan Rudess - Grand Illusion_Piano V_v2
Space Oddity_Piano V_v2

UPDATE:
Like earlier demos i added those to my collection/list at page 6 and in the OP too.

For those who have Arturia Piano V and are interested in the presets here is a download:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... 0.2016.zip

The "Import" feature in Piano V is needed to load those.

The first one is the preset used for the old demos and the second is the new one in the demos posted above.
The Reverb is off in those as i used an external one but you could add this again if needed.

Note: In teh new preset I have already reduced the soundboard resonance ("Soundboard" parameter) from 0.760 ot 0.600 but if it is too much for you you could decrease this value of course.

The name of the presets is a bit funny but i used a combination of my own name and the name "Steinway". This does not imply that those are xact replicateions of a Steinway piano.
BTW the founder of Steinway was from Germany and originally was called "Heinrich Engelhard Steinweg" which later after he moved to the US was changed to "Henry E. Steinway".

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:01 pm

I thought it is a good idea to alos add demos for a freeware Piano. I started with the Salamander Piano available from Bigcat instruments which is based on a Yamaha C5. A full version of Kontakt seems to be needed to use this. There is also a SFZ version i have not tested myself.

The demos are added to my collection at page 6 of this thread and also in the OP, after the pianos list.

Link for the library (also included in the OP): http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.de/20 ... ments.html
As mentioned there the piano originally seems to be from Alexander Holmfeel (while the Kontakt instrument seems to be created by Bigcat Instruments):
https://musical-artifacts.com/artifacts/3

The libray has a size of around 1.2 GB with 570 samples. It has 16 velocity layers for the main samples while it only seems to use 4 samples per octave.
While no velocity curve is included you could add this yourself within the advanced options for the Kontakt instrument (within the velocity controls).

UPDATE:
Here are the demos that i posted at the OP:
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.1_Salamander Piano
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.2_Salamander Piano
Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata mvt.3_Salamander Piano
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.1_Salamander Piano
Beethoven - Appassionata mvt.3_Salamander Piano
Beethoven - Für Elise_Salamander Piano
Mozart - Turkish March, KV331 mvt.3_Salamander Piano
Debussy - Claire De Lune_Salamander Piano
Chopin - Revolutionary Etude, Op 10 No 12_Salamander Piano
Chopin Op 39_Salamander Piano

bigcat1969 · Post by **bigcat1969** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:07 pm

The Grand Illusion by Jordan Rudess is scary good. His folks gave me permission to use it for my very first demo on my first instrument and that created whatever bigcat instruments is, which is open for debate... So use carefully as it has great powers.

Thanks for the Rachmaninov demo. It sounds great.

Thanks for including the Salamander. Its creator is Alexander HolmFeel. The SFZ seems to be the original version? At this point they are probably somewhat different sounding as I took the liberty of tightening up the samples. However the sfz has some harmonic files that are beyond my knowledge and not in the Kontakt version, so it might have a better sound.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:08 pm

bigcat1969 wrote: Thanks for the Rachmaninov demo. It sounds great.

Glad you liked it. Now, bring the renderings, please...

bigcat1969 · Post by **bigcat1969** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:53 pm

OK I think this works...?

Rachmaninov Salamander
Rachmaninov Summer
Rachmaninov Maestro

Just a note, Sustain doesn't seem to work the same way in Studio One as intended in the midi file. Most of the notes in the midi file start with sustain off and then turn it on after the note has been struck, this just results in no sustain being used for me.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:31 pm

bigcat1969 wrote:The Grand Illusion by Jordan Rudess is scary good. .

I had rendered Grand Illusion using The Salamander Piano:
Jordan Rudess - Grand Illusion_Salamander Piano
Like with my other demos the Waves H-Comp compressor and the Lexicon MXR native reverb were used, both with moderate amounts (actually the compression is quite small).

That track is indeed great, also for testing piano libraries with it.

Thanks to for for posting here and also for the demos you posted.

BTW while i alraedy added them to the OP of this thread i also added the other Salamander Piano demos to the post above (at this page).

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:36 pm

bigcat1969 wrote: Just a note, Sustain doesn't seem to work the same way in Studio One as intended in the midi file. Most of the notes in the midi file start with sustain off and then turn it on after the note has been struck, this just results in no sustain being used for me.

That's weird. Sustain on the piano always works like that: You attack the note with the sustain off, and then activate the sustain (otherwise, the sound would be reinforced, due to all strings resonating by sympathy). Sometimes, when we want a more dramatic effect, we attack the notes WITH the sustain on, but that's not the norm.

Are you sure there isn't any Preference in Studio One to change the sustain behaviour?

Regarding the renderings: The Salamander sounds good. The Maestro is OK, but has some artifacts (there is a low note in the basses that sounded really strange, for example). I didn't like the other piano at all. It sounds like we were hearing it from a distance (like we were in the street hearing it through the walls).

I have to investigate that Salamander

Is it free?

bigcat1969 · Post by **bigcat1969** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:53 pm

Yup the Salamander is free.
a couple down this page for Kontakt...
http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.com/2 ... ments.html

Oh and thanks for the demos above. I'll have to check them out. I'm really impressed by the sampling job on the Salamander it and Piano in 162 might have the best samples on a freebie piano. I've always really liked the Maestro, but I wonder if the Salamander isn't better.

Acoustic Grand Piano libraries/emulations: An Overview (audio demos of some pianos added)