DAW with a "human" workflow?

[incubus]

But he always just has the side of the "company" regardless of the "company"

See my sig. It's the truth. I get by with what I can. FL studio is stable and has some cool things, reason 8.3 works. And recently I added bitwig 1.3 again

Stable and with win 10 have some of the efficiency issues worked out. I have NO DELUSIONS of them actually making "workflow" a priority*

*FL seems to have some nice tricks coming up it's sleeve for 13, but we'll see. They are by FAR the most innovative of the hosts but I don't think I'd describe their workflow as "human"

[Kalamata Kid]

*FL seems to have some nice tricks coming up it's sleeve for 13, but we'll see. They are by FAR the most innovative of the hosts but I don't think I'd describe their workflow as "human"

SETI just announced that they found ETI and ETI claims that
FL Studio is human. But what do they know there not human.

I am looking forward to FLS 13. Would love to see ARA
implementation. The partial FLS 13 list.
? http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.p ... 0#p1153380

[incubus]

Some good funny stuff tonight

[LawrenceF]

@ Woggle: Please read my post again, we are not disagreeing.

It's very easily demonstrable that workflow "beyond a certain point" as I said is subjective to some of the things I mentioned. How do we know this? Because every single DAW product on the market has people who feel completely differently - like polar opposite feelings - about how good the workflow is. Nobody is "wrong" about any of it, it's more just preference and the other things I mentioned.

Guy A says Cubase's workflow is great. Guy B says it kinda sucks. Who's wrong? Nobody. It has nothing to do with any "company" as the "always needs to make a personal dig" grudge guy suggested, it's just an observation that applies to humans. We're all different and we tend to view a lot of those things differently.

If "good workflow" was a static and non-subjective thing, nobody would ever disagree about it.

[woggle]

"If "good workflow" was a static and non-subjective thing, nobody would ever disagree about it."


no - you are assuming people are rational which is demonstrably untrue. (see politics, USA 2017)

[LawrenceF]

Not sure what else to say to explain what I meant.

Example: Bitwigs's workflow is great for certain things and people and not so great for other things and people. So people doing different things with it may feel quite differently about it. Right?

But people argue about it endlessly anyway.

It's partly subjective to the work, the goals, the tasks, and also to user preference. They all (all the products) have people who feel the "workflow" is great and they all have people who feel otherwise.

It's not about being rational or irrational, it's more just that all people never feel the same way about anything ever, because people are different.

[DaveL60]

I've at least skimmed pretty much all of this thread, and have just a few quick thoughts:

* I've played with Mu.Lab, and like it, but understand your concerns about it being a bit pattern oriented.
* Tracktion has a fairly unique approach, and the original concept was developed by a musician who found existing DAWs very unsatisfying, as a musician
* I've personally found the various flavors of Samplitude to be among the most productive tools I've used, and find that I keep coming back to that.

YMMV.

[DaveL60]

My rhythm is fine. But for creativity's sake I record live, without the distracting metronome sound. So the bpm set in the background (I don't know any DAW where one can simply turn the tempo off) hardly ever matches the timing I used when recording. Basically I don't care what timing I used, but when building a song from my patterns, I do have to use timing.

So, basically I just want to record my shit and when I am finished, I want to tap along to my recording, which yields the right tempo and sets it for that project.

It sounds like an alternative approach would be to get skillful at adjusting the tempo map in the DAW to the material you've recorded. There's a short video on YouTube for how to do this Tracktion T6 using a very visual approach. The mechanics probably vary from DAW to DAW, but the principle should helpfully still be useful.

[oldphart]

I'm a bit late to chime in here but I completely get Fluffy little something's concerns. Yep I'm an older person too, though not phased by any tech.
Relatively new to midi based writing too, though not new to the rest of it.

I don't like playng to a click and I do everything by ear - and then find drums diffcult to add later. I can do them, but I then have to edit the timings.
But my pieces keep a "played by humans" feel - rather than "played by studio".
I like Tech music - but in its right place.

So Fluff LS have you decided?
I use Reaper but wonder if there's something else.

[fluffy_little_something]

No, I have not decided, yet, what to do. Had little time past week and I am a bit demotivated at the moment, to put it mildly

[Mathematics]

I haven't read every page of this thread but I have read enough to get the impression that the solution may be to use more than one DAW to get the job done. For example, my workflow starts with a piano in Live, no click, then time stretching applied to fix timing issues in order to sync nicely with the next instrument, all without quantizing. From there...render out stems to Pro Tools and publish a final track.

Second example. Scoring a symphonic piece. I start out with Digital Performer, play without the click, use the conductor track to modify the timing if the playing is mostly in time. Again, export out the stems to Pro Tools and finalize.

Of course, I could do everything in any one DAW without having to export out the stems but I have grown to like Pro Tools for post production. Honestly, I too suggest going with Live. I've used every major DAW since the 90's and I've discovered there is very little I can't do with Live. The time stretching capability itself in Live is superior to almost all other DAWs; this would be good if you're playing and recording live.

Good luck!

[EnGee]

Korg has nice cheap metronomes. It's better than running the DAW or using the phone.

This will help you guys practice your rhythm. Also look for your fav songs tempo and practice with it. I mean I know no way to skip that and relay on auto guessing tool.

[pdxindy]

No, I have not decided, yet, what to do. Had little time past week and I am a bit demotivated at the moment, to put it mildly

I've often found the modern digital tools to be something of a trap. They are all so incredibly powerful, that they lead one to aim at the perfection of minutia.

As a photographer, I enjoy having my camera in hand and taking photographs. I enjoy that much more than taking hours of time tweaking endless little subtleties in an image editor. I do quick color corrections and move on. I would rather those hours were spent doing more photography.

Same thing with music. Everything can be tweaked and edited down to the tiniest level. But I found I enjoy it more when I play a midi part and it is not to my satisfaction, just to play it again. Sitting there and spending hours tweaking midi notes is not particularly fun for me. Also, lots of times when I have done that, and made it 'better', it actually ended up with less life.

I would say it is important to find the things that you enjoy, and focus most of your time there and not let the tools dictate that too much. The tools these days invite an obsessive perfectionism (overly intellectual) and unless that is what you actually enjoy, don't let the tools push you there.

my 2¢

[tooneba]

Live is standing in ambivalent position regarding human workflow. It has one of the best workflow and one of the worst piano roll.

[oldphart]

Does all classical and jazz rely on a 100% strict metronome ?
Surely it relaxes and tightens up in different places, as the conductor and musicians perform.
There's no rule that says it has to return to clock after each excursion.
And humanise is a random kludge.