Reason 10 incoming

[chk071]

Does any program get angrier updates than Reason? Is it ever like this with Cubase and Ableton? I don’t think even the recent Bitwig update fiasco with the new pricing model was this bad.

Well... with the point upgrades for Cubase, it is the same, mostly. Even though a lot hails from single individuals, like that self-important guy i won't name, here on KVR.

But, you surely have a point. It isn't nearly as severe as with Reason. I'm guilty of it too, but, i surely see a point in some of the points of critic. Even long term Reason users have a lot to criticize, i recently watched a episode of Musotalk, a german audio software and hardware vlog, and there was a guy i knew before, who is a Reason user for a long time, and wrote books, and gave lectures about it, and he had a LOT to cricitize about Reason in its current state. It even got to the point where people considered the episode as a Logic advertisement.

[EnochLight]

Does any program get angrier updates than Reason? Is it ever like this with Cubase and Ableton? I don’t think even the recent Bitwig update fiasco with the new pricing model was this bad.

Well... with the point upgrades for Cubase, it is the same, mostly. Even though a lot hails from single individuals, like that self-important guy i won't name, here on KVR.

But, you surely have a point. It isn't nearly as severe as with Reason. I'm guilty of it too, but, i surely see a point in some of the points of critic. Even long term Reason users have a lot to criticize, i recently watched a episode of Musotalk, a german audio software and hardware vlog, and there was a guy i knew before, who is a Reason user for a long time, and wrote books, and gave lectures about it, and he had a LOT to cricitize about Reason in its current state. It even got to the point where people considered the episode as a Logic advertisement.

That's the thing though - the vast majority of complaints you see are from Reason users that have been in the game for a long time, or are advanced users. This update seems aimed towards new users (and admittedly, if Reason is your first DAW or only DAW, the 10.0 content clearly adds value). Add to the fact that the loudest/most vocal are always the ones who are the most dissatisfied. I'm not saying the complaints that they have are invalid; I just think it's important to look at the bigger picture.

[KarmaShaman]

Well, I can't see KarmaShaman's posts

While you may have blocked me, I KNOW you can't help yourself but to unfold and read my posts anyway. You know it and I know it. Which puts the advantage in my corner, since you'll try oh so hard to refrain from replying. Your infuriation is my reward. So please keep silent, it brings a smile to my face to know that I have the upper hand, and it's due to your choosing.

I don't work for Propellerhead.

Ladies & gentlemen, note this technicality of 'work for'. Someone who receives monies, gratuities and other commision bonuses as a freelancer does not consider himself 'working for' Props. He's not denying that he's on the take, just his employment status.

My field is actually in real estate.

Real Estate, Used Cars, Snake Oil, any of those careers wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

But yeah, my point stands: R4 and R9 are like two completely different applications, IMHO. I think it's pretty evident.

Delusion born from self-justification is a strong influencer. Of course those who blindly rush to upgrade every time a release is issued want to believe there are a swathe of feature improvements. The sad fact is that there are a whole army of gullible suckers that Propellerhead rely upon. When 10 launches, they'll have paid over $750 in licence upgrades alone, so acknowledging that development has been poor in the last decade would be an admission they would rather deny.

Of course these are the very same fanbois who insist on buying the latest and greatest plugin because it makes them feel like more of an artists, despite them using only the patch presets and banging out tired old 4/4 instrumental pop cliche's.

But you know the old saying about a fool and his money.

[keel]

wise words

[chk071]

Well, I can't see KarmaShaman's posts

While you may have blocked me, I KNOW you can't help yourself but to unfold and read my posts anyway. You know it and I know it. Which puts the advantage in my corner, since you'll try oh so hard to refrain from replying. Your infuriation is my reward. So please keep silent, it brings a smile to my face to know that I have the upper hand, and it's due to your choosing.

I don't work for Propellerhead.

Ladies & gentlemen, note this technicality of 'work for'. Someone who receives monies, gratuities and other commision bonuses as a freelancer does not consider himself 'working for' Props. He's not denying that he's on the take, just his employment status. My field is actually in real estate.

Real Estate, Used Cars, Snake Oil, any of those careers wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

But yeah, my point stands: R4 and R9 are like two completely different applications, IMHO. I think it's pretty evident.

Delusion born from self-justification is a strong influencer. Of course those who blindly rush to upgrade every time a release is issued want to believe there are a swathe of feature improvements. The sad fact is that there are a whole army of gullible suckers that Propellerhead rely upon. When 10 launches, they'll have paid over $750 in licence upgrades alone, so acknowledging that development has been poor in the last decade would be an admission they would rather deny.

Of course these are the very same fanbois who insist on buying the latest and greatest plugin because it makes them feel like more of an artists, despite them using only the patch presets and banging out tired old 4/4 instrumental pop cliche's.

But you know the old saying about a fool and his money.

Do you realize how boring this is?

[KarmaShaman]

Do you realize how boring this is?

You're welcome to use the block feature. In fact, I implore you too. I'll never glean a single grain of knowledge from you, so we have no need to enter into future conversations.

The point here, which people seem to be getting so butthurt over, is that advancements to the core of Reason are incredibly lacklustre, and have been for many years, once you take the shiny, shallow things away and see the truth. So in typical fanboi fashion, the devotees instead turn the topic into a witch-hunt. Hilarious, really.

[EnochLight]

Do you realize how boring this is?

Karma's never been interested in not being boring. Trolling, though? Sure. It wouldn't be a normal day in a Reason thread at KVR without their nonsense.

Sad.

[chk071]

Do you realize how boring this is?

You're welcome to use the block feature. In fact, I implore you too. I'll never glean a single grain of knowledge from you, so we have no need to enter into future conversations.

The point here, which people seem to be getting so butthurt over, is that advancements to the core of Reason are incredibly lacklustre, and have been for many years, once you take the shiny, shallow things away and see the truth. So in typical fanboi fashion, the devotees instead turn the topic into a witch-hunt. Hilarious, really.

Why not do everyone a favour, send EnochLight a marriage proposal per PM, or just cut it? You know, it got boring after 2 times, and now you go on and on and on. Actually, you only returned to this forum to go on, obviously. Do you wanna be a troll, or do you want to be taken serious?

Do you realize how boring this is?

Karma's never been interested in not being boring. Trolling, though? Sure. It wouldn't be a normal day in a Reason thread at KVR without their nonsense.

Sad.

Yep... what a sad existance.

[KarmaShaman]

Yep... what a sad existance.

There is absolutely zero content in your post that is related to Reason. How about you try and stay on topic? At least one sentence discussing the subject would be in order, otherwise you're just derailing the thread.

So Reason 10, I'm excited. I'll be buying a licence upgrade straight away.

[jjpscott01]

Nah I feel like they're all like this. For some reason, DAW announcements bring out some serious anxiety in certain users. Regardless, Reason 10 looks like its going to be a nice update and a no-brainer for those updating from an earlier version

[boomsmah]

I think it would be nice with touché in future. Reason will be best suited for. Also input output with varieus gear related stuff, like video. Preforming aspects, like robot driven by the beats onder OSC or in correlation with single board computers light show.
I mean its all coming to Reason.

Cheers.

[BMoore]

Yep... what a sad existance.

There is absolutely zero content in your post that is related to Reason. How about you try and stay on topic? At least one sentence discussing the subject would be in order, otherwise you're just derailing the thread.

So Reason 10, I'm excited. I'll be buying a licence upgrade straight away.

Boring trolls doesn't deserve content on topic.

[Jace-BeOS]

Does any program get angrier updates than Reason? Is it ever like this with Cubase and Ableton? I don’t think even the recent Bitwig update fiasco with the new pricing model was this bad.

Cakewalk Sonar gets this kind of treatment. It earned it. Reason is kind of heading in the same direction, with Propellerheads' marketing mindset... except the core product isn't as infuriating (not to me at least). The potential is being squandered under a tiny GUI, and the development seems stalled (instead of enhancing the existing modules, they're just adding content and new modules)... but the push to upgrade hasn't stalled.

I've not seen as much vitriol aimed at anything else but Sonar. Reason has always been a product of contention for some people and I'm not sure why. I never played into the weird irrational hate Reason received online. I understand its marketing has been somewhat obnoxious (rather like Apple's self-importance and "not invented here" attitudes), and this bundle package called Reason 10 is the next step in bad marketing to squeeze more new buyers out of the market while ignoring the core customer base.

Reason's only "great failure" is stalled development, not some kind of inherent suckage: It has never crashed on me and features never refused to work (both regular complaints for Sonar). It's just a stalled product being presented as vibrant and worthy of paying for repeatedly. I learned my lesson with Sonar after six+ upgrades. With Reason, I learned faster. Propellerheads can get me to buy again if they get back to the core product's development. Till then, I wait and watch. I'm not here for schadenfreud. It's not fun to see previously admirable companies and products self-sabotaging (Cakewalk, Apple, Propellerheads, Adobe, etc).

[donkey tugger]

Does any program get angrier updates than Reason? Is it ever like this with Cubase and Ableton? I don’t think even the recent Bitwig update fiasco with the new pricing model was this bad.

Cakewalk Sonar gets this kind of treatment. It earned it. Reason is kind of heading in the same direction, with Propellerheads' marketing mindset... except the core product isn't as infuriating (not to me at least). The potential is being squandered under a tiny GUI, and the development seems stalled (instead of enhancing the existing modules, they're just adding content and new modules)... but the push to upgrade hasn't stalled.

I've not seen as much vitriol aimed at anything else but Sonar. Reason has always been a product of contention for some people and I'm not sure why. I never played into the weird irrational hate Reason received online. I understand its marketing has been somewhat obnoxious (rather like Apple's self-importance and "not invented here" attitudes), and this bundle package called Reason 10 is the next step in bad marketing to squeeze more new buyers out of the market while ignoring the core customer base.

Reason's only "great failure" is stalled development, not some kind of inherent suckage: It has never crashed on me and features never refused to work (both regular complaints for Sonar). It's just a stalled product being presented as vibrant and worthy of paying for repeatedly. I learned my lesson with Sonar after six+ upgrades. With Reason, I learned faster. Propellerheads can get me to buy again if they get back to the core product's development. Till then, I wait and watch. I'm not here for schadenfreud. It's not fun to see previously admirable companies and products self-sabotaging (Cakewalk, Apple, Propellerheads, Adobe, etc).

That seems to be spot on to me. I bought Elements a few months back, for once having a bit of spare cash, just to have a mess about with as I'd always quite liked it. I'd last used any version of Reason when I was teaching in around 2005, and I must say I was a bit shocked to see that the sequencer was almost exactly the same as it was 12 years ago! If you compare the piano roll editing facilities to probably any other sequencer, it's looking mighty basic now.

[chk071]

IMO, the biggest mistake they made is actually listening to the people... at least the people who are never satisfied, and always expect a product to be more than it originally was intended to. I think, they should have concentrated on the basic application, keep it closed, and step by step update the included devices, hire some really skilled DSP guys, do a Thor v2, which is on one level with Spire, or whatever similar is out there, do a big GUI overhaul, even implement resizing capabilities, purge the program, so that it keeps things simple, like they were in version 5, step by step improve the fx, because, frankly, those could be better too, and maybe bring some more functionality to the sequencer itself. Frankly, the way i always read it, on Reason user forums, there weren't too many which really claimed that they NEED VST support desperately, and Reason always was more of a all-in-one-box solution. I remember when it came out, the biggest appeal, and what they most marketed it for was a "whole studio for less than a hundredth of the price of a whole studio" or similar. And THAT'S what Reason always has been about for me. Unfortunately, that concept was somehow left along the way, or the developers didn't consequently followed it, so Reason ran in a dead end (for me). I believe, that, even if they only had released Thor v2 at some point, there would have been a much more tempting reason for people who moved on to stick to Reason. I don't want to claim that a lot of people DID move on, but, some surely did.