I remember a lot of these arguments from the eighties, when guitarists were learning how to play songs not by ear or sight reading, but by getting tablature from the monthly guitar magazine...
As a grizzled older dude myself, I have very few problems with the YouTube video as a source of learning, in fact, I do like to see how other people do stuff, and which practices I can steal and add to my own thing. It is just a source of information, and just like from any other source, information can be helpful or damaging, based on how you use it. Also some stuff, like Underbelly's great "You Suck At Producing" vids are just flat out entertaining as well.
My Own "get off my lawn" type rage is directed at the seeming multitudes who have never spent any time working in old analog studios who allow their creative output to be stifled by really laughably small bugs and "workflow" issues with whatever DAW they love/hate at that moment. I mean, I used to have to fart around with editing with a razor blade, constantly maintaining cables and gear, dealing with archaic time code, having to deal with the reality that your tape was deteriorating along with your recording every single time you pressed play or record or bounced something, and not to mention the sheer expense of everything. After that, I do have a hard time listening to complaints that something "requires too many mouse clicks" to get done. It's work, learn how to work.
All these newbies getting spoon fed everything.
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- KVRian
- 570 posts since 9 Jan, 2012 from Dona Ana, New Mexiico in the US of A
Yeah, this...(in bold)ShawnG wrote:I remember a lot of these arguments from the eighties, when guitarists were learning how to play songs not by ear or sight reading, but by getting tablature from the monthly guitar magazine...
As a grizzled older dude myself, I have very few problems with the YouTube video as a source of learning, in fact, I do like to see how other people do stuff, and which practices I can steal and add to my own thing. It is just a source of information, and just like from any other source, information can be helpful or damaging, based on how you use it. Also some stuff, like Underbelly's great "You Suck At Producing" vids are just flat out entertaining as well.
My Own "get off my lawn" type rage is directed at the seeming multitudes who have never spent any time working in old analog studios who allow their creative output to be stifled by really laughably small bugs and "workflow" issues with whatever DAW they love/hate at that moment. I mean, I used to have to fart around with editing with a razor blade, constantly maintaining cables and gear, dealing with archaic time code, having to deal with the reality that your tape was deteriorating along with your recording every single time you pressed play or record or bounced something, and not to mention the sheer expense of everything. After that, I do have a hard time listening to complaints that something "requires too many mouse clicks" to get done. It's work, learn how to work.
With these tools available it's great to be alive at this time. I think the complaining is more about what they can't do themselves than the tools they use. With all the ways of delivery of the final product they may find out that they are not up to snuff to keep up and of course, it's a bug in the DAW holding em back from the next "Hit" or the first one for that matter.
I for one believe the passing of knowledge is necessary to keep the art going, whether or not it's appreciated or even used.
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- KVRist
- 48 posts since 1 May, 2016
Fast forward some 150 years and chances are pretty high that music technology has been developed much further within the broader context of artificial intelligence (unless we're entering a new dark ages in history).
Personally I think anybody who's serious about music composition, and music as a form of art, should consider that technology ultimately is a means to save time. What really matters is the artistic vision, and the response to that vision from both the producer and consumers.
The musician who think he's more special than others because he has spent lots of time building skills to play his chosen "traditional" instrument, needs to learn that a computer is also an instrument. The future musician could be more of a multi-skilled programmer, who's able to produce and perform music in real time by adapting to millions of peoples' neuro/mood-technological devices by means of controlling a huge network orchestra of AI-bots.
What do you suppose will happen when 10 million young people today enter the field of music production tomorrow? Sure there will be lots of "instant gratification" and draggin' n' droppin' of pre-made loops. So what? New standards will emerge, new skills will be valued.
Let people ask their questions - nothing is too stupid or to lame to ask, really. It's up to forum admins to specify the rules of social interaction, if necessary. But music production on a hobby level should be all about having fun and enjoying the ride.
All the "instant gratificationists" in the world who lack the required discipline to build new skills will naturally fade away when their 10 seconds of fame is over. Their primary interest is probably more about producing "likes" rather than producing "music" anyway. In contrast, those who are serious about having fun will take their time to do things right and implement automation in many different areas (that includes muscle memory, e.g. playing an instrument or mastering a DAW).
Personally I think anybody who's serious about music composition, and music as a form of art, should consider that technology ultimately is a means to save time. What really matters is the artistic vision, and the response to that vision from both the producer and consumers.
The musician who think he's more special than others because he has spent lots of time building skills to play his chosen "traditional" instrument, needs to learn that a computer is also an instrument. The future musician could be more of a multi-skilled programmer, who's able to produce and perform music in real time by adapting to millions of peoples' neuro/mood-technological devices by means of controlling a huge network orchestra of AI-bots.
What do you suppose will happen when 10 million young people today enter the field of music production tomorrow? Sure there will be lots of "instant gratification" and draggin' n' droppin' of pre-made loops. So what? New standards will emerge, new skills will be valued.
Let people ask their questions - nothing is too stupid or to lame to ask, really. It's up to forum admins to specify the rules of social interaction, if necessary. But music production on a hobby level should be all about having fun and enjoying the ride.
All the "instant gratificationists" in the world who lack the required discipline to build new skills will naturally fade away when their 10 seconds of fame is over. Their primary interest is probably more about producing "likes" rather than producing "music" anyway. In contrast, those who are serious about having fun will take their time to do things right and implement automation in many different areas (that includes muscle memory, e.g. playing an instrument or mastering a DAW).
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
I don't think that the main point of the OP was about "kids these days", especially since he clarified in a later post that the main inspiration for it was a friend who was actually older than him.
That being said, I have gotten really tired of seeing the "older people of every generation always say stupid things about the younger generation" trope being trotted out every single time this kind of issue is brought up.
In the first place, it implies that all cultural decline is imaginary. This is plainly false. To take a relatively unassailable example, there is the decline of geometry from its heyday in ancient Greece to its nadir in the early middle ages. Downhill all the way.
In the second place, generational alienation goes both ways. Very few people even try to understand people outside their own age group, but there are always a handful, in every generation, who do try.
Finally, what the hell is wrong with asking people to get off your lawn? Maybe there are poisonous chemicals on it, or manure, or new seed. Maybe they spent a lot of money buying sod that hasn't had a chance to set yet. Maybe that person cares about their lawn and garden the way people here care about their musical instruments.
Something to think about.
That being said, I have gotten really tired of seeing the "older people of every generation always say stupid things about the younger generation" trope being trotted out every single time this kind of issue is brought up.
In the first place, it implies that all cultural decline is imaginary. This is plainly false. To take a relatively unassailable example, there is the decline of geometry from its heyday in ancient Greece to its nadir in the early middle ages. Downhill all the way.
In the second place, generational alienation goes both ways. Very few people even try to understand people outside their own age group, but there are always a handful, in every generation, who do try.
Finally, what the hell is wrong with asking people to get off your lawn? Maybe there are poisonous chemicals on it, or manure, or new seed. Maybe they spent a lot of money buying sod that hasn't had a chance to set yet. Maybe that person cares about their lawn and garden the way people here care about their musical instruments.
Something to think about.
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- KVRAF
- 7001 posts since 20 Mar, 2012 from Babbleon
I'm one of those "requires too many mouse clicks" people. My situation required two extra mouse clicks. I thought that the scriptwriter could make those two extra mouse clicks go away so I simply asked if he/she could modify his/her script.
The script was modified in no time at all and I am guessing the scriptwriter is glad that the script became more efficient and it's probably child's play for scriptwriters to make such a modification.
I'm glad the script was modified. Extra mouse clicks matters if you are working with 20,000 midi items.
Did you know that it takes less than a second to save one midi item? But it takes 5 and a half hours to save 20,000 midi items?
That affects the electricity bill, it also ties up my offline computer (meaning I can't use it while it's doing that job so I have to kill time and type stuff in forums like this, as in the case of right now) and it shortens the computer's lifespan too, I presume.
If I could find a way to reduce that 5 and a half hours, I would. Finding a better way is better than settling for an inefficient time-consuming way.
The script was modified in no time at all and I am guessing the scriptwriter is glad that the script became more efficient and it's probably child's play for scriptwriters to make such a modification.
I'm glad the script was modified. Extra mouse clicks matters if you are working with 20,000 midi items.
Did you know that it takes less than a second to save one midi item? But it takes 5 and a half hours to save 20,000 midi items?
That affects the electricity bill, it also ties up my offline computer (meaning I can't use it while it's doing that job so I have to kill time and type stuff in forums like this, as in the case of right now) and it shortens the computer's lifespan too, I presume.
If I could find a way to reduce that 5 and a half hours, I would. Finding a better way is better than settling for an inefficient time-consuming way.
ah böwakawa poussé poussé
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- addled muppet weed
- 111304 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
i like being spoon fed, leaves my hands free to touch myself.
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experimental.crow experimental.crow https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6258
- KVRAF
- 6895 posts since 9 Mar, 2003 from the bridge of sighs
there is no spoon ...vurt wrote:i like being spoon fed, leaves my hands free to touch myself.
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- KVRAF
- 7001 posts since 20 Mar, 2012 from Babbleon
Hahaha. You're a multitasking person then.
ah böwakawa poussé poussé
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el-bo (formerly ebow) el-bo (formerly ebow) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=208007
- KVRAF
- 18054 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away
The spoon is a cake!...Or, is it a lie? No! The lie is a cake!experimental.crow wrote:there is no spoon ...vurt wrote:i like being spoon fed, leaves my hands free to touch myself.
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- KVRAF
- 8037 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Atlantis Island
An abyss of ambivalence has been opened and will engulf all of us... Beware!el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:The spoon is a cake!...Or, is it a lie? No! The lie is a cake!experimental.crow wrote:there is no spoon ...vurt wrote:i like being spoon fed, leaves my hands free to touch myself.
https://sonograyn.bandcamp.com/music Experimental Ambient
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
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- addled muppet weed
- 111304 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
cake.stanlea wrote:What is this thread about ?
cake and self love.
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- addled muppet weed
- 111304 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
martinjuenke wrote:An abyss of ambivalence has been opened and will engulf all of us... Beware!el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:The spoon is a cake!...Or, is it a lie? No! The lie is a cake!experimental.crow wrote:there is no spoon ...vurt wrote:i like being spoon fed, leaves my hands free to touch myself.
one should never be either ambivalent or apathetic with regards to masturbation!
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- KVRAF
- 8037 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Atlantis Island
May I cite this question in other threads?stanlea wrote:What is this thread about ?
https://sonograyn.bandcamp.com/music Experimental Ambient
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240 - KVRAF
- 37262 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from Scottish Borders