Avoid Analog Obsession at all costs!

[jochicago]

Save the drama for your momma.
We're talking about free plugins here people, a lot different then the picture you're painting from the past.
Seems pretty generous to me.

Dr Zeus, account opened 1 hour ago. Just happens to wander in here to quiet the thread down pretending to be a casual user. Just as I'm talking about fake accounts. Hilarious.

And you guys are talking "redemption", like we are talking about the past. You are generous to give second chances, currently at 7th and 8th chances, I wonder how many more you'll have to give before you run out. I would bet you'll run out of second chances before this situation goes dry on controversies and fake accounts.

[MogwaiBoy]

Well I slightly retract my comment about giving AO another chance - this malware thing has spooked me. When I boot up my workstation i'm going to run a full scan and maybe just purge my system of AO forever.

I'm glad this thread wasn't locked because other I (a customer who has given money to Tunca) wouldn't even know that I could have been infected. He didn't even email his customers. Now I wonder if my login password or credit card number or whatever interaction I had with his old website was also compromised.

[thecontrolcentre]

I wonder if my login password or credit card number or whatever interaction I had with his old website was also compromised.

[claudedefaren]

Save the drama for your momma.

We're talking about free plugins here people, a lot different then the picture you're painting from the past.

Seems pretty generous to me.

The fact that there continues to be new accounts created solely for the purpose of defending AO and/or downplaying the criticism against AO tells me everything I need to know about this company.

[MogwaiBoy]

I wonder if my login password or credit card number or whatever interaction I had with his old website was also compromised.

I'm not that worried about it - he took payment via FastSpring so I'm sure it's all good. But there's no reassurance or communication on this matter specifically, and I think there should have been.

Wouldn't you want to let your customers know why your website suddenly vanished and they no longer have access to their personal user area or their purchases and invoices... and then reassure them that their financial details are safe.

Maybe when he lost the old website he also lost his entire customer database, so he had no idea who to contact? Seems like risky management. I hope he's learned a valuable lesson in this - I certainly have.

[Obsolete462444]

I'm glad I stayed away from his products after I witnessed the previous controversies. Also, I was surprised about AO's high number of releases, especially since he seems to be a single developer and claimed that his plugins were "analog-modelled".

So I figured that I don't really need his stuff (I'm covered with products from more reputable developers who actually have a history of sophisticated DSP knowledge).

It's beyond me anyway why people feel the need to clutter their DAW with new plugins, just because they have a pseudo-realistic look? Shouldn't everyone be covered with compressors and eqs already? How many comps and eqs do you really need guys?

I have one comp plugin (DC8C v3 by Klanghelm) that already covers most of compression territory, add something like TDR Kotelnikov to the picture and you are set. Same with EQs.

If AO's stuff is really packed with malware, then it's quite dangerous that his stuff continues to be offered on various platforms. So, if you really want to do something useful, get in touch with these platforms and let them know about the malware (if that is really true).

[Jorgeelalto]

I think the original problem that was he tried to build a business around creating and selling plugins, but there was no long-term vision of any kind. When you pay for something you expect some kind of support (at least, stable software and some updates that guarantee that software to work in the mid/long term). Now that he's releasing them free with optional donations, that is not a problem anymore.

[Burillo]

I'm glad I stayed away from his products after I witnessed the previous controversies. Also, I was surprised about AO's high number of releases, especially since he seems to be a single developer and claimed that his plugins were "analog-modelled".

So I figured that I don't really need his stuff (I'm covered with products from more reputable developers who actually have a history of sophisticated DSP knowledge).

It's beyond me anyway why people feel the need to clutter their DAW with new plugins, just because they have a pseudo-realistic look? Shouldn't everyone be covered with compressors and eqs already? How many comps and eqs do you really need guys?

I have one comp plugin (DC8C v3 by Klanghelm) that already covers most of compression territory, add something like TDR Kotelnikov to the picture and you are set. Same with EQs.

If AO's stuff is really packed with malware, then it's quite dangerous that his stuff continues to be offered on various platforms. So, if you really want to do something useful, get in touch with these platforms and let them know about the malware (if that is really true).

it's not packed with malware. he had his website hacked and files infected. bummer but stuff like this happens - it's not like he intentionally infected those files (unless you have evidence to the contrary, of course?).

as far as my understanding goes, he doesn't really "write" his plugins, he creates them using some kind of SPICE-schematic-to-plugin conversion process. this allows him to rapidly develop plugins. this has bitten him in the ass multiple times as his plugins seem to be a perpetual project rather than finished products, and he doesn't seem to understand the point of having a vision and a concept for a plugin, without deciding to tack on things on a whim, "completely rework the schematic", "improve" this or that, and just plain old beta testing.

that said, while this "perpetual project" doesn't work for commercial development, it is just fine for Patreon-supported free-for-all, so now the equation changes from "unreliable developer" to "use them if you want, forget about them if you don't".

[Obsolete462444]

@Burillo That's a fair and reasonable summary!

[boydell200]

There was no malware in the Mac downloads, so to say that all the plugins were infected is factually untrue. But you do you jo. The way you wrote that was an insinuation. I'm not going to unravel the nuance of why. You call it events as they unfolded or I call it spin. You're holding some sort of grudge. That's my interpretation.

There was nothing in Tunca's offline messages to me, when I offered to help at the time this unfolded, that led me to believe he was anything other than victim. As someone who is responsible for securing computer systems, I know a small bit about threat modeling and incident response. I see things very differently than you, in fact giving Tunca a bit of money on Patreon monthly, because my experience is not the same as yours.

I've seen a developer who was terrible at business, struggle to figure that out, and then got kicked in the nuts by a hacked website while he was down. The site was probably hacked well before, and the trigger for discovery of the infected downloads was his opening up the files hosted there for free. Having studied a bit about this in my career, there is nothing far fetched that a WordPress self-hosted site was hacked, nor that the files hosted there would be used as a vector for malware. Happens every day. You want to be cynical about sources of infection, Content Management Systems (e.g. WordPress) are buggy and insecure, madly so if you don't keep them updated.

I have also seen that from a very public bottom, AO picked himself up and busted ass to find an alternate model and share his work, updating everything at a mad pace, clearly taking into mind the reputational damage that was done. That's my perspective on things. Everyone here can form their own opinion of the his plugins by downloading and using them, but this thread is no longer about that.

Exactly. This is such a great summary mate.

[boydell200]

I'm glad I sparked a revival in this because I feel like now there is balance in everyones comments and it's become an even and up-to-date thread.

Firstly, I'm not Tunca or work for him. I don't have an account that has all whistles and bells and posting all the time because I've never felt the need. Most of the time, it's posts about companies who have employees and money and they get a fair wrap overall - which leads me on to that..

He's a guy who's just try to do it on his own against all odds. It's a bit like someone having a go at the airwindows guy. I mean how can you really?

One post may seem insignificant to you but it may mean the difference between a person going back to his day job that could be absoloutely SHIT or working as a community to turn it around (which he's trying, you must admit!).

I've honestly tried a crazy amount of plugins over 20 years and his are really, really good and I want him to keep going and improving. That's my only motivation.

[kidslow]

I'm not spinning anything to thread a narrative. I'm answering a question for people who see a bunch of free plugins and are wondering what's the catch. You however seem to be very interested in spinning.

Jo, you seem like a reasonable person. I offered my subjective opinion as a participant observer in some of these matters. My perspective is my perspective, not spin. From my perspective, you seem to have taken something personally. I don't carry all the baggage you do with this developer, and as a hobbyist I have no problems with all the erratic nature of his past or current output.

My interpretation is bad businessperson, but sincere and not anyone deliberately trying to infect his user base or cause them grief. Just trying to figure out how to make a living at making plugins and struggling. I don't know about the sock puppet accounts. Maybe these are honestly new people or lurkers who are seeing a developer's missteps being used to cast insinuations on his character?

He should have informed the customer base of this incident. The above supposition that the customer database was lost is probably close to the target. I suspect maybe not lost but set off to the side like the ashes of a house that burnt down and too painful to sift through.

The risks here are not unique to AO. I will only use a trusted third party payment processor (Paypal, Fastspring) when making purchases. I would not be surprised if customer databases that include my information are available on the dark web from audio-related sites where my information lives. I've observed a spectrum of shoddy web security practices across the board in the industry and I haven't even actively gone looking for them. The developers who do security best in my opinion are like u-he and DDMF, where they don't have a user area per se. Less attack surface.

[heyheycnv]

This is what I thought

as far as my understanding goes, he doesn't really "write" his plugins, he creates them using some kind of SPICE-schematic-to-plugin conversion process. this allows him to rapidly develop plugins. this has bitten him in the ass multiple times as his plugins seem to be a perpetual project rather than finished products, and he doesn't seem to understand the point of having a vision and a concept for a plugin, without deciding to tack on things on a whim, "completely rework the schematic", "improve" this or that, and just plain old beta testing.

and not this BS earlier from a new/banned user

The amount of time and money this guy must have spent obtaining the gear, researching, modelling, testing, drawing etc etc... to get just ONE plugin to work

[boydell200]

...another uneccesary dig. good.

[kidslow]

I don't even see that what Burillo or boydell200 wrote are necessarily exclusive, unless the "SPICE-schematic-to-plugin conversion process" described is unfathomably easy, which I doubt.

Should it really matter what toolkit is used to develop the plugins? Does it make them unreasonably CPU heavy? Does it make them sound bad? Or diminish the usability of their interfaces? Those are the questions that should matter. Everyone here can answer those on their own, since they are free to download and play with.