Why you left Bitwig?

[apoclypse]

The confusion about the definition of the term subscription

There is no confusion.

Those who deny its a subscription plan are not confused.

Those who say it is a subscription plan are not confused.

The former have purchased it.

The latter have not.

If Bitwig are happy with that situation, fine. If they want to attract the latters money then they need to change their business model.

For the forseeable future I guess they will play hardball and stick.

No confusion.

This is probably the most apt argument about the issue imo. As a Bitwig user it certainly feels like a subscription especially when compared to other software like Studio One or Logic.

Logic is special case because the amount of money Apple makes on Logic probably amounts to a rounding error for them but Studio One, Live, etc had major features added within the lifetime of their major releases and they were free for users and I didn't feel like I had to pay $129 on top of the $399 I already paid for the software in the first place just a year ago.

I've been upgrading Studio One since version 2 and every 3-4 years all I have to pay is $149 for an upgrade. They release major features within the major version lifecycle. Presonus introduced a whole new sound engine in version 3.5 of Studio One. For free. They introduced a whole bunch of new Piano Roll tools and completely revamped the macros bars etc. in 4.5, for free. Bitwig released a Pitch tool or whatever the hell that is and expects me to pay $149 for the privilege after only a year of buying the software. Sorry but that feels like a subscription to me.

Sure it's not an Adobe subscription, because you paying upfront versus monthly, but any major issues or performance fixes with the software are never backported to older versions. To be more precise it feels more like a rent to own model but you pay rent upfront. It's still a crappy model and it's definitely a turn off. Especially when the updates don't even address any of the issue I care about. So now an issue I do care about, Mac performance, is locked behind an upgrade I can give two **** about.

[bermudagold]

I'll throw in my two cents here.

refreshingly objective and eloquent post....preciate ya

[pdxindy]

This is probably the most apt argument about the issue imo. As a Bitwig user it certainly feels like a subscription especially when compared to other software like Studio One or Logic.

Logic is special case because the amount of money Apple makes on Logic probably amounts to a rounding error for them but Studio One, Live, etc had major features added within the lifetime of their major releases and they were free for users and I didn't feel like I had to pay $129 on top of the $399 I already paid for the software in the first place just a year ago.

Studio One is also tiny compared to what Presonus makes on their other products. For sure Studio One and Logic are both better deals for the dollar... especially Logic. If Studio One supported MPE, I'd likely get it as a compliment to Bitwig. Right now Logic serves that purpose.

Bitwig only sells Bitwig Studio. It is on the expensive side... but for me, it is really a tiny ongoing cost compared to my studio overall. I bought a Waldorf Quantum. It will take like 30 years or something for Bitwig to cost as much as that one synth. From that perspective, the difference between Bitwig and Studio One or Logic is insignificant for me.

My Linnstrument is 10 years of Bitwig... I recently pre-ordered the Osmose which is similar. I have the UDO Super-6 on order too as it responds to MPE so I can play it with the Linnstrument or Osmose. Bitwig's cost is a meaningless incidental in order for me to have an MPE capable DAW that I enjoy working with and which never crashes.

[apoclypse]

This is probably the most apt argument about the issue imo. As a Bitwig user it certainly feels like a subscription especially when compared to other software like Studio One or Logic.

Logic is special case because the amount of money Apple makes on Logic probably amounts to a rounding error for them but Studio One, Live, etc had major features added within the lifetime of their major releases and they were free for users and I didn't feel like I had to pay $129 on top of the $399 I already paid for the software in the first place just a year ago.

Studio One is also tiny compared to what Presonus makes on their other products. For sure Studio One and Logic are both better deals for the dollar... especially Logic. If Studio One supported MPE, I'd likely get it as a compliment to Bitwig. Right now Logic serves that purpose.

Bitwig only sells Bitwig Studio. It is on the expensive side... but for me, it is really a tiny ongoing cost compared to my studio overall. I bought a Waldorf Quantum. It will take like 30 years or something for Bitwig to cost as much as that one synth. From that perspective, the difference between Bitwig and Studio One or Logic is insignificant for me.

My Linnstrument is 10 years of Bitwig... I recently pre-ordered the Osmose which is similar. I have the UDO Super-6 on order too as it responds to MPE so I can play it with the Linnstrument or Osmose. Bitwig's cost is a meaningless incidental in order for me to have an MPE capable DAW that I enjoy working with and which never crashes.

My issue isn't the price exactly. I own quite a bit of hardware as well. I just don't see the value being there for a yearly paid upgrade.

I just really need to know that they are going to work on the essentials (like quantizing audio) and that they will focus less on gimmicky stuff, and more on meat and potatoes features. I don't need comping in Bitwig or want it to be Studio One/Logic/ProTools. I just want the stuff they have there to be polished and working properly and as feature full as it's supposed to be.

[anoise]

Bitwig should just add MIDI editor tools, audio quantize and groove pool and 90% of the arguments against it would be gone (Of course as bug free as possible).

[EnGee]

If I can do everything in Maschine 2, then I would switch from Bitwig. Not that Bitwig is not good or I don't like it! But because I mainly use Maschine mikro and KK M32 keys. Those naturally integrates better with Maschine 2. I also have Komplete, so browsing the tons of presets is easier with Maschine.

I had Live, S1 and Bitwig but I felt I need just one of them in spite of me liking them all. I found Bitwig the best for my need (although I sacrificed some features I like in the other two that doesn't exist in Bitwig, but that's OK as there is no perfect DAW).

Yes, the plan is expensive. I don't think I will upgrade for one year at least, unless it stops working for some reason! I don't think I need any other feature. I can happily use Bitwig enjoying every minute, but I'm also enjoying Maschine a lot (the limitations are not that big problem, I just need to find a way of better arrangements of the patterns).

[Reefius]

Just been playing around with Bitwig and some hardware (Behringer Crave and TD-3) and it didn't take long before I got annoyed by weird behaviour and missing functionality.

- When adding a new track while playback is running, the TD-3 (which runs its own built-in sequencer) suddenly goes out of sync and it stays out of sync until I stop and restart playback.

- My Crave sounded out of tune, so I went looking for a tuner device... Guess what? There is none in Bitwig

- Push 2 functionality is very basic, especially in session view with grouped tracks. You can either control only the group track in combination with the rest of the tracks, or just the tracks inside the group without anything else. This makes using Push 2 in session view totally pointless.
I have no idea if this is a limitation in Moss' extension or in the Bitwig API, but my guess is the API.
In Ableton Live I can expand and collapse groups and still see all other tracks on Push 2.

- I often get strange behaviour on my controllers using Push 2, Maschine and Komplete Kontrol MK2, like a blank mixer page on the KK MK2, transport buttons not working properly, and even all controllers being completely unresponsive. I don't have these issues in Ableton Live.

- The 8 Macro knobs on each device only seem to be mappable to 1 parameter at a time. I had to insert a separate Macro modulator to be able to map multiple parameters to the same knob.

- Most of the time Bitwig doesn't reset controllers to their default state when quitting the program. This bug has been there since v1.0 and it seems they don't care about fixing it.

- New plugin windows open behind other plugins, this is also a long known bug they don't seem to care about.

- The mixer has these tiny faders that can't be enlarged. There are also no markings at all on the faders, you need to hover your mouse over a fader to see its level in dB. All you see is a very simple orange bar that doesn't look like a fader at all.

So yes, I once again left Bitwig and went back to Live because all the above just works as it should in Live.

[Kongru]

Just been playing around with Bitwig and some hardware (Behringer Crave and TD-3) and it didn't take long before I got annoyed by weird behaviour and missing functionality.

- When adding a new track while playback is running, the TD-3 (which runs its own built-in sequencer) suddenly goes out of sync and it stays out of sync until I stop and restart playback.

- My Crave sounded out of tune, so I went looking for a tuner device... Guess what? There is none in Bitwig

- Push 2 functionality is very basic, especially in session view with grouped tracks. You can either control only the group track in combination with the rest of the tracks, or just the tracks inside the group without anything else. This makes using Push 2 in session view totally pointless.
I have no idea if this is a limitation in Moss' extension or in the Bitwig API, but my guess is the API.
In Ableton Live I can expand and collapse groups and still see all other tracks on Push 2.

- I often get strange behaviour on my controllers using Push 2, Maschine and Komplete Kontrol MK2, like a blank mixer page on the KK MK2, transport buttons not working properly, and even all controllers being completely unresponsive. I don't have these issues in Ableton Live.

- The 8 Macro knobs on each device only seem to be mappable to 1 parameter at a time. I had to insert a separate Macro modulator to be able to map multiple parameters to the same knob.

- Most of the time Bitwig doesn't reset controllers to their default state when quitting the program. This bug has been there since v1.0 and it seems they don't care about fixing it.

- New plugin windows open behind other plugins, this is also a long known bug they don't seem to care about.

- The mixer has these tiny faders that can't be enlarged. There are also no markings at all on the faders, you need to hover your mouse over a fader to see its level in dB. All you see is a very simple orange bar that doesn't look like a fader at all.

So yes, I once again left Bitwig and went back to Live because all the above just works as it should in Live.

Inb4 the Bitwig zealots tell you that everything you said was wrong or that they're features

[Reefius]

Inb4 the Bitwig zealots tell you that everything you said was wrong or that they're features

[antic604]

Inb4 the Bitwig zealots tell you that everything you said was wrong or that they're features

Get a room already

[Kongru]

Inb4 the Bitwig zealots tell you that everything you said was wrong or that they're features

Get a room already

[VariKusBrainZ]

Inb4 the Bitwig zealots tell you that everything you said was wrong or that they're features

Get a room already

And everyone just assumed theyd been eating prawn cocktail crisps

[excuse me please]

I don't see the problem; just use Bitwig with Phase Plant

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GcKF_G6wuIM

[Reefius]

I don't see the problem; just use Bitwig with Phase Plant

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GcKF_G6wuIM

That's Cubase in the video, not Bitwig

And how the hell does he have 297 days of trial remaining in Phase plant? Looks like he's using some kind of trial extender because the official trial period is 10 days

Try before you buy!
Kilohearts offers a fully functional 10 day trial on all products so you can make up your mind before spending anything.

[excuse me please]

@Reefius

Lol now I notice; that whole darn Goa tutorial is in Cubase!
Mixed two channels up:

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCuzDmHD4 ... 7GA/videos