Brainworx bx_console AMEK 9099

[pixel85]

I'm absolutely not surprised that you said that.

How so? I'm not really sure what you're saying here..?

I said I didn't find his content compelling - not that I agreed or disagreed with any particular point. I just find his presentation style a bit annoying, his tendancy towards comparing everything to Acustica products as if they are the holy grail, and I've never really got much out of his content. It's my prerogative to not enjoy his content much.

(And I'll take an Irish accent over a Scottish one, most days of the week.. )

He's autistic (but he's bloody honest because of that) and his way of making videos, talking etc. is kinda 'specific'. I know that it's not for everyone.

[beely]

On the other hand, I'm not particularly a fan of the (many) people going "OMG new holy grail!" etc etc just because a new plugin is out and it's got more knobs on (and they need "content" to promote for their channel). I've found some of the videos on the Amek 9099 channel strip a bit painful because of that.

It's not a holy grail by any stretch of the imagination - if anything, so far I find the sound to be a bit bland and characterless, a little like I found the Focusrite channel strip, and as such, I don't find it particularly exciting. But I'm open minded about it, and I might come across a more in depth video from someone who's better able to present a balanced and informative presentation...

[sguyader]

So you believe in anything that a producer/seller/trader is telling you?
I mentioned the example above: Iron compressor. TMT is not emulating any channels or different units. They worked with just one unit to develop that plugin (you can find it mentioned somewhere in a veeeeery long GS topic), thus they couldn't even compare if differences in TMT are accurate to different Iron units. Not to mention that it's Mastering Compressor in which such huge differences between units would be rather considered as an error.
But why I'm even trying to talk about it. PA lovers will never believe that PA could not be honest in their advertisements

I think that TMT has never been advertised by brainworx as modeling channels. It's supposed to modeled component-level tolerances. Indeed, any electronic component (capacitors, resistors, etc...) has a certain tolerance in it values. Mastering grade hardware is supposed to use component with tighter tolerances, but deviation in component values will never be 0%. So, even in mastering grade there has to be some deviations between channels, but I guess very expensive hardware is built such that components are tested and matched to have the lowest possible tolerance in 1 unit (but tolerance between units could be larger).
I agree that TMT in a plugin such as SPL Iron can seem like a strange idea, but since it can be disabled, why not still have it, and allow value deviations to operate for people who want to experiment with it?

[SoftSynthLover99]

On the other hand, I'm not particularly a fan of the (many) people going "OMG new holy grail!" etc etc just because a new plugin is out and it's got more knobs on (and they need "content" to promote for their channel). I've found some of the videos on the Amek 9099 channel strip a bit painful because of that.

It's not a holy grail by any stretch of the imagination - if anything, so far I find the sound to be a bit bland and characterless, a little like I found the Focusrite channel strip, and as such, I don't find it particularly exciting. But I'm open minded about it, and I might come across a more in depth video from someone who's better able to present a balanced and informative presentation...

I agree with that assessment. The SSL 9000 J is by far my favorite for the style of music I do (Rock, Pop, R&B).

The focusrite console didn’t really impress me initially either, however it slowly grew on me over time especially on Guitars and Vocals. It’s got a character but is really program dependent.

I’m gonna give the Amek a go later this evening to see what kind of character it has and what sources it might be good for. It’s gonna be hard for a channel strip to replace the 9000 J for me though.

[Ploki]

TMT is not modelling anything, it's an algorithm that is randomizing given parameters, no matter what model of hardware this plugin emulates.

Since you are directly contradicting Brainworx's descriptions of their own plugins, you're gonna have to give me a solid citation for this. And no, other PA haters saying "well, I looked at plugin doctor!!1" or something like that is not going to be sufficient.

Yeah i’m sure marketing brochures by someone claiming to have invented M/S are 100% true and not lying.

Also hardware SPL IRON likely truncates and aliases as well and that’s just intricate modeling?

[jasonekratz]

TMT is not giving a false impression, but a lot of people do seem to misunderstand what it does. What it's doing is fairly clear to me - it's a randomised set of components with slightly differing values within manufacturing tolerance, which may or may not affect the sound and behaviour of the models.

Random in the sense many random when first chosen but the values don't change if I remember correctly. But yeah they're not modeling individual channels of a console unless I understood it wrong.

[jasonekratz]

I'm looking forward to Joe Carrell's review of the new AMEK. He's done some really good vids of the various PA channel strips and how they compare. And of course Michael White because he's so thorough.

[beely]

Random in the sense many random when first chosen but the values don't change if I remember correctly.

The settings are not chosen when you run the plugin, the set of values is generated in development and baked into the code as I understand - therefore each TMT channel in a given plugin will always have the same set of component values/variations.

But yeah they're not modeling individual channels of a console unless I understood it wrong.

Correct. The Patent for TMT shows pretty much what it's doing, so it's not like a black box we know nothing about. Just sets of component values with slight variations within the specified tolerances from the original circuit specs.

[jasonekratz]

TMT is not modelling anything, it's an algorithm that is randomizing given parameters, no matter what model of hardware this plugin emulates.

Since you are directly contradicting Brainworx's descriptions of their own plugins, you're gonna have to give me a solid citation for this. And no, other PA haters saying "well, I looked at plugin doctor!!1" or something like that is not going to be sufficient.

Take a look at their documentation. Here is the TMT text from the 4000G console plugin (https://files.plugin-alliance.com/produ ... ual_en.pdf):

Typical channel strip plugins only model one channel of a mixer. When you apply that same plugin channel across all of your tracks in a mix—even using different control settings—you get flat, narrow, two-dimensional digital sound. bx_console SSL 4000 G is different—and it sounds huge. The plugin uses our proprietary, patent-pending Tolerance Modeling Technology (TMT) to accurately replicate variations in the values of individual components specified by the manufacturer and/or original hardware designer. This creates, in separate instances of bx_console SSL 4000 G, the small channel-to-channel variances in phase and frequency response you would expect to hear in the original G Series analog mixer. bx_console SSL 4000 G’s smart interface and extremely low CPU load let you instantly recall up to 72 slightly different-sounding channels across all plugin instances on your tracks, giving you the deep and wide “mixed on a big analog console” sound your DAW has been missing.

They're not claiming to model a console, they're making variations on components.

[beely]

I'm looking forward to Joe Carrell's review of the new AMEK. He's done some really good vids of the various PA channel strips and how they compare.

I like Joe Carrell, he seems like a nice guy - but those videos he does are really endorsements for PA, so it's not like they are exactly unbiased - just bear that in mind.

And of course Michael White because he's so thorough.

I like his stuff too - although for some reason, he seems to always really like pretty much any plugin he's checking out... Maybe everything's good these days...

[beely]

They're not claiming to model a console, they're making variations on components.

Yep, this was always clear to me, and I'm not sure why there are people here claiming they're trying to mislead about what TMT is - it seems to me, they've always been pretty clear about it what it is... Perhaps people are just reading it wrong.

[jasonekratz]

I'm looking forward to Joe Carrell's review of the new AMEK. He's done some really good vids of the various PA channel strips and how they compare.

I like Joe Carrell, he seems like a nice guy - but those videos he does are really endorsements for PA, so it's not like they are exactly unbiased - just bear that in mind.

Well, I mean yeah but he's also a pro with a reputation he wants to maintain. The videos show the differences between the PA consoles, not PA's and someone else's. Not sure where bias really applies in this example.

And of course Michael White because he's so thorough.

I like his stuff too - although for some reason, he seems to always really like pretty much any plugin he's checking out... Maybe everything's good these days...

Seems pretty honest to me. Another professional who doesn't treat this stuff like a competition. He shows how they work and they work pretty well doing what they're supposed to do. At the end of the day its up to us to figure out if its worth spending money on.

[beely]

Well, I mean yeah but he's also a pro with a reputation he wants to maintain. The videos show the differences between the PA consoles, not PA's and someone else's. Not sure where bias really applies in this example.

What I mean is, he's not making videos because he likes making YouTube content, he's making videos because PA asked him to, or commissioned him too. He may genuinely love the plugins, and he certainly seems pretty genuine to me, I'm just saying to bear in mind that it's effectively PA-produced/commissioned content - so there's not going to be much in there that isn't positive to the product - that's the bias. The videos are part of PA marketing.

Micheal White is a bit different, he's doing his own content, I like his stuff and wasn't suggesting anything bad about his content - I just find it funny that I don't recall him ever reviewing a plugin and going "Yeah, it's not that great really..."

[jasonekratz]

Well, I mean yeah but he's also a pro with a reputation he wants to maintain. The videos show the differences between the PA consoles, not PA's and someone else's. Not sure where bias really applies in this example.

What I mean is, he's not making videos because he likes making YouTube content, he's making videos because PA asked him to, or commissioned him too. He may genuinely love the plugins, and he certainly seems pretty genuine to me, I'm just saying to bear in mind that it's effectively PA-produced/commissioned content - so there's not going to be much in there that isn't positive to the product - that's the bias. The videos are part of PA marketing.

Yeah I hear ya. I've got no problem with PA hiring a pro to demo their stuff. For people wondering about the sound diffs between PA strips those vids are fantastic.

Micheal White is a bit different, he's doing his own content, I like his stuff and wasn't suggesting anything bad about his content - I just find it funny that I don't recall him ever reviewing a plugin and going "Yeah, it's not that great really..."

Yeah you're right, can't recall that either And frankly sometimes I can't hear the changes he's talking about but I'm watching a YT video without necessarily the best audio and sometimes his music choices leave a lot to be desired for hearing the changes. Still love him tho.

[bmanic]

I totally agree with everything you said. But it's always in the presentation. There is definitely a way to do it rationally and matter-of-factly. And furthermore, don't just make stuff up because it feels good to pile on.

In short, all for criticism. But lets be fair about it too.

I can totally 100% agree with this. You are very right.

I do know it's sometimes hard to keep a cool head and keep the criticism within rational and non-emotional levels. I've had years of issues with this myself when it comes to Acustica Audio products and business practices. It went so far that I had to completely distance myself from them even though I've literally been with them from the start (literally!).

Sometimes it's healthy to just realize that whatever company you would wish did XYZ simply doesn't want to and doesn't see things the same way you or a large portion of the community does but instead want to do their own thing. At that point you just need to lay the axe to rest and either accept it as it is or look for something else.

This is sort of where I am with PA at this moment. I do like the concept they represent, having a lot of great plugins under one easy to navigate and license umbrella company. I just wish there was a bit more fluidity to the company when it comes to bug fixes and community communication (the facebook group doesn't provide either.. it's total praise-the-king's ego thing).

As for the Amek, I'm definitely going to demo it at soon as they go M1 native plugins within PA and am looking very much forward to giving it a go! I already really love the SSL E channel plugin.. and within my workhorse setup you can always find VSM-3, Black Box HG-2, Purple FET compressor and Elysia plugins (those are ALL amazing in my opinion!).