DP 11 is out

[jonljacobi]

Pretty bitter dregs pinki. The current pace of DP’s development and the extremely high quality of their latest audio interfaces don’t seem to jive with your assessment. Maybe something changed.

[pinki]

You're right (about bitter dregs) I'm sorry.

To be clear though, I was saying their software is the problem, not the hardware.

Anyway, yes, maybe something has changed in their software department too.

[machinesworking]

Motunation is a joke. A graveyard. Full of grumpy old men.

And that’s the thing with DP compared to something like Studio One, it’s got this permanent feeling of deadness.

Look at the last big update: DP10. In a sad and desperate attempt to ‘get down with the kids’ they added the worst version of a clip launcher possible that nobody was asking for or wanted. Meanwhile bugs going back years were not fixed.
And then once released, they do a quick 10.01 and 10.02 update to squash a few release bugs and then….nada… for over a year complete silence. It will be exactly the same for DP 11 too, because Motu do not care. That’s the thing, they really don’t care about DP. They stopped caring around DP 5.
What they do care about is their hardware. Software..Mach Five, BPM, Ethno, all abandonware. DP, almost abandonware.

Once I went over to Studio One I realised I had been part of some bizarre sect for the last decade. Not healthy.

But I sincerely hope DP11 is the beginning of a new chapter in Motu’s history and a new young and vibrant community forms around DP, a new forum run by Motu (or here on KVR) with constant communication from the devs, regular updates squashing bugs and responding to the new community. How exciting that would be!

Likely? No. Because Motu do ..not…care.

(just my personal rant based on my experience as a former fan!)

I’ve been you before, I switched to Logic for about 9 years in 2001. There’s nothing wrong with DP or it’s development. The problem is in the simple fact it’s complex software, DAWs are IMO some of the most complex pieces of software out there.

So in 2001 DP 2.7 had a render bug where audio recorded of a looped file would skip the first loop. This coupled with the fact that VST was killing MAS in terms of the sheer amount of plug ins available made me switch to Logic. With some tweaking Logic 4.7 was eminently stable, just solid as a rock for me. I ranted on forums about what a mess DP was and was happy i used Logic when Apple went from OS 9 to OS X.

Apple in charge, updates and new features everything perfect. Then Logic 7 came along, it would crash when I got up to get coffee, literally just sitting there, it would crash, just an absolute total buggy mess. Same process of expectation vs reality occurred with Live 8, it took them almost two years to stabilize Live.

Getting a copy of Logic X I like all the new gadgets and the step sequencer etc. but it’s still built on the 16 channel MIDI in concept, so MPE instruments take up all the bandwidth. It’s still a great DAW but it’s not for me at this time.

My point is you’re holding a lot of anger about a product you used for 20 years that didn’t move in the direction you personally wanted it to, and or conflicted with your setup in some way. For me it’s moving in the direction I want it to, 90% of the new features in 11 are my top requests. It’s that simple really, if DP doesn’t work for me I’ve got a few here to choose from, but the fact is I own basically six DAWs and DP is my personal favorite.

[fmr]

I am experiencing a bug (both in DP 10 as well as DP 11) related with Kontakt. This is in Windows 10 (I know, I must one of the very few that actually used DP in Windows).

It happens that Kontakt GUI freezes when you hit playback, and you can basically do nothing with it. Anyone?

[pinki]

My point is you’re holding a lot of anger about a product you used for 20 years that didn’t move in the direction you personally wanted it to, and or conflicted with your setup in some way. For me it’s moving in the direction I want it to, 90% of the new features in 11 are my top requests. It’s that simple really, if DP doesn’t work for me I’ve got a few here to choose from, but the fact is I own basically six DAWs and DP is my personal favorite.

I guess. But did you use DP10 these last two years? Also have you tried using DP on Windows?

[machinesworking]

My point is you’re holding a lot of anger about a product you used for 20 years that didn’t move in the direction you personally wanted it to, and or conflicted with your setup in some way. For me it’s moving in the direction I want it to, 90% of the new features in 11 are my top requests. It’s that simple really, if DP doesn’t work for me I’ve got a few here to choose from, but the fact is I own basically six DAWs and DP is my personal favorite.

I guess. But did you use DP10 these last two years? Also have you tried using DP on Windows?

Yes I used DP10, the last version for me wasn't too stable, it was obviously a plug in conflict because besides some crashes here and there, load in time (plug ins being examined on startup) took forever, which is an obvious indication that there's a plug in conflict.

90% of the issues with DAWs in terms of crashes etc. come from incompatible plug ins, and more than half the time, it's due to the plug in developer, Ableton 7 and Battery 3 would crash consistently for instance. The best bet that way for sure is Bitwig, the whole sandboxing thing works in every case except hangs, but hangs only happen when a plug in window is being tweaked in my experience, so it's obvious which one to remove if that happens.

In general my experience has been similar with all DAWs I've used though, they do a good job of dealing with this, until they don't. Bitwig has a bug with Equator 2 where the release time cuts off when cycling the timeline, but it's due to Roli, not Bitwig. A couple VST3 plug ins crash Reaper, but it's hard to blame Reaper, VST3 plugins tend to be the most likely to be unstable on my system anyway.

I haven't tried DP on Windows, I regularly talk to a few people who use it though, and at some point I'm building a Windows slave machine, so I'll likely instal it there to see how it goes. DP11 has Windows specific graphic improvements BTW.

[fmr]

I haven't tried DP on Windows, I regularly talk to a few people who use it though, and at some point I'm building a Windows slave machine, so I'll likely instal it there to see how it goes. DP11 has Windows specific graphic improvements BTW.

But there are still graphic bugs (see my post above). And the plug-in management didn't seem to improve. I don't understand why the program seems to examine the plug-ins twice before loading them (it first scans them, whatever that means, and then "gathers information" about them - again, whatever that means).

No other host does this. I suspect it has something to do with MAS (MOTU Audio System).

[machinesworking]

I haven't tried DP on Windows, I regularly talk to a few people who use it though, and at some point I'm building a Windows slave machine, so I'll likely instal it there to see how it goes. DP11 has Windows specific graphic improvements BTW.

But there are still graphic bugs (see my post above). And the plug-in management didn't seem to improve. I don't understand why the program seems to examine the plug-ins twice before loading them (it first scans them, whatever that means, and then "gathers information" about them - again, whatever that means).

No other host does this. I suspect it has something to do with MAS (MOTU Audio System).

It might, but I think it's due to changes, or perceived changes to the plug ins. I've got an ungodly amount of plug ins in all three formats, so it's likely due to that. Sometimes it seems to load in seconds, other times minutes. Live loads slightly faster, Logic is the same, Bitwig always loads fast, and Reaper is a coin toss like DP.

[fmr]

Bitwig always loads fast, and Reaper is a coin toss like DP.

Bitwig scans while we are working. It doesn't stop to do the scan (the most stupid method I see). Cakewalk also does it like Bitwig, BTW. IMO all host should work that way - scan while we are working. It's plainly stupid to launch a program and then be there stuck looking at the screen while it displays name after name (this if it doesn't stop scanning because a plug-in launched some dialog box).

[machinesworking]

Bitwig always loads fast, and Reaper is a coin toss like DP.

Bitwig scans while we are working. It doesn't stop to do the scan (the most stupid method I see). Cakewalk also does it like Bitwig, BTW. IMO all host should work that way - scan while we are working. It's plainly stupid to launch a program and then be there stuck looking at the screen while it displays name after name (this if it doesn't stop scanning because a plug-in launched some dialog box).

For a program like Bitwig that works, people use DP as a front end for a recording studio, seems to be a common use, and if a plug in doesn't load or there's interruptions in the audio, then it looks really bad to the customer. Plus Bitwig does the whole uninterrupted audio engine thing, at a cost of a much much heavier CPU use than DP, like 30% +/- less plug ins generally can be loaded in Bitwig. The uninterrupted audio engine thing is cool and why Bitwig can let you start interacting with some of the interface even while plug ins or the project itself is loaded, but it's expensive plug in count wise. Basically Bitwig barely pre-renders or buffers plug ins at a higher rate than the buffer setting you set up in preferences, compared to DP and others that get a higher track count by pre-rendering etc.

They simply aren't the same kind of DAW, I would hate to attempt to do big orchestral or studio work in Bitwig, but Bitwig is much more immediate than DP. They compliment each other well really. Same applies to DP and Live, different workflows entirely.

[pinki]

DP and Bitwig was what I ran for the last 3 years. That combination of "serious DAW" and "creative DAW" is a good way to go.
Having swapped DP for Studio One I now get double the track count I got with DP. The whole pre-render idea never really delivered and the 'having the plugin GUI open or not" was very confusing in the workflow.

[machinesworking]

DP and Bitwig was what I ran for the last 3 years. That combination of "serious DAW" and "creative DAW" is a good way to go.
Having swapped DP for Studio One I now get double the track count I got with DP. The whole pre-render idea never really delivered and the 'having the plugin GUI open or not" was very confusing in the workflow.

IMO you had or have some plug in incompatibility issue with DP, I get consistently high track counts with DP VS Logic, and a reaper gets maybe a plug in or two more like less than 5% difference. For whatever reason, some people’s set ups and DPs PreGen are not compatible.

I have a heavily modified 12 core 09 Mac Pro, and PreGen works here as expected, utilizes all twelve cores etc.

[pinki]

I have a heavily modified 12 core 09 Mac Pro, and PreGen works here as expected, utilizes all twelve cores etc.

Sure, I'm not saying it doesn't work, it just didn't really radically alter track counts when they introduced it and it was a workflow oddity.
Since going to Studio One I'm just getting a better overall CPU efficiency (on Mac- I have a 12core 2010 Mac Pro) and in Studio One you just load plugins and everything happens in the background.

Generally the Studio One engine performs better than DP, which makes sense as it was written from the ground up more recently and is more compatible with a wider range of plugins.

Also, on another angle, the workflow in Studio One is way, way better than DP. Like I say, there isn't much I don't know about DP, and I've only used Studio One for a year but it's just better in almost every aspect apart from the GUI which is taking some getting used to after the serene GUI of DP (for me, IMHO etc

And now I'm way off topic so I shall say no more.

[machinesworking]

I have a heavily modified 12 core 09 Mac Pro, and PreGen works here as expected, utilizes all twelve cores etc.

Sure, I'm not saying it doesn't work, it just didn't really radically alter track counts when they introduced it and it was a workflow oddity.
Since going to Studio One I'm just getting a better overall CPU efficiency (on Mac- I have a 12core 2010 Mac Pro) and in Studio One you just load plugins and everything happens in the background.

Generally the Studio One engine performs better than DP, which makes sense as it was written from the ground up more recently and is more compatible with a wider range of plugins.

Also, on another angle, the workflow in Studio One is way, way better than DP. Like I say, there isn't much I don't know about DP, and I've only used Studio One for a year but it's just better in almost every aspect apart from the GUI which is taking some getting used to after the serene GUI of DP (for me, IMHO etc

And now I'm way off topic so I shall say no more.

No you’re on topic, no DAW upgrade thread on KVR is complete without multiple people claiming their DAW is better!

Again, I don’t know why PreGen didn’t work as advertised for you, but I tested DP before and after against Logic and Reaper. Previously Logic beat DP track count wise by about 15-20%. Logic already had a modern buffering system. Afterwards DP would squeak by Logic. So I saw a significant improvement once PreGen was announced. There were and are people who still get no advantage out of pregen, IMO it might be Waves or some other developer I don’t have many plug ins from causing issues, because I’m not a clean user I have hundreds of plug ins loaded on my system etc.

[Silaris]

Wow. Somehow I missed the memo that a new DP version is available until now. Upgrading soon.