One Synth Challenge #174: InfernalSynth by sjoerdvankreel

[ZonderP]

@sjoerdvankreel
Thanks a lot for the CLAP version!

[doctorbob]

@sjoerdvankreel
Thanks a lot for the CLAP version!

Yes thanks. Don't think I can replace my 1.2 versions with 1.4 (vst or clap), only just back from hols and so don't really have time to "re-fix" my track!!!

Certainly a synth to watch ... a bit more intuitive FM routing (+feedback a la Yamaha synths) would see this being a goto synth.

db

[sjoerdvankreel]

@ZonderP
@doctorbob

CLAP is an interesting format. I hope host support will increase over time. I understand it is still somewhat in development, but i found it to be mostly intuitive and more important, whenever i get stuck, clap maintainers are quickly to respond.

@doctorbob

<< Don't think I can replace my 1.2 versions with 1.4

1.4 can replace 1.2/3-versioned, but not 1.2/3-generic. If you went with generic, then, out of luck (sorry). 1.4 drops the generic/versioned thing but its a breaking change. And the clap version cannot replace the vst3 either way. Although 1.4 can share patches between vst3/clap.

<< only just back from hols
Same here, work starts tomorrow after summer holiday. So, development will be a lot slower now.

<< a bit more intuitive FM routing
I have been meaning to ask you about this. I'm not really satisfied with the FM myself but not sure where to go with it either. Any good examples (screenshots, free plugs)?

-cheers, sjoerd

[Frank Geppert]

I'm not really satisfied with the FM myself but not sure where to go with it either. Any good examples (screenshots, free plugs)?

-cheers, sjoerd

Maybe there are more complicated FM solutions, but I like the way Vital does it. You can use another voice oscillator to control a FM synthesis but you can also use an LFO with higher frequencies to do that. There are many tutorials like this one to explain it a bit better:

[sjoerdvankreel]

@ Frank Geppert

Thanks for the video. Ok so I think i understand now what you and @doctorbob are after - modulating the frequency of one osc by another osc with some routing options. I.e. carrier/modulator style FM synthesis - right?

Which reminds me, I really should not label the "FM" control "FM" but just "frequency". Sure you can modulate it but that's hardly FM in the traditional sense.

[doctorbob]

Yes sort of ... here's an article about reverse engineering the dx7 algorithms ... gives you some idea how the 8 oscillators in the dx are used ... including feedback/self modulation. Also, the modulation can be varied over time, giving you very complex waveforms.

HTH

https://www.righto.com/2021/12/yamaha-d ... ering.html

dB

PS. There a re a number of decent FM synths out there, so don't try to emulate them, but it's worth building a decent FM section into yours, IMO. The UI on how to connect the OSC's up and control the modulating FM source over time needs to be thought out ...

[sjoerdvankreel]

@doctorbob thanks.

That would be a great addition indeed and probably also a major feature.
The #1 reason i refrained from putting it in so far is the massive amount of aliasing it causes.
I guess the majority of the work would go in combatting that.

[doctorbob]

@doctorbob thanks.

>> No problem ...

That would be a great addition indeed and probably also a major feature.

>> true - but a lot of work

The #1 reason i refrained from putting it in so far is the massive amount of aliasing it causes.
I guess the majority of the work would go in combatting that.

>> very true ... I suspect a lot of dsp engineering in most major synths is aimed at addressing this issue, along with phase problems with EQ, filters etc. It can destroy the sound of a decent synth, so as you say, this is where effort needs to go ... I'm sure there are articles (and software examples) around which address these issues ... hopefully someone reading this will come forward with references for you

dB

[MadMcMan]

@SeBaer
@doctorbob

Here is the CLAP version: https://sjoerdvankreel.github.io/infernal-synth/.
It has (should have) feature-parity with vst3 version, but, no polyphonic modulation yet (that should also be a stepping-stone towards midi MPE btw).

@madmcman

<< I've found if you press clear and working whilst playing sounds you can sometimes when routing osc to fx you can still get output

The CLAP version does not seem to suffer this problem (i have yet to thoroughly test, but its easy to reproduce with vst3, cant make it to happen with CLAP yet). Of course that's not a guarantee the bug is actually gone.

V1.4 drops the "generic" build and has a new preset format which can be shared between vst3/clap versions. As a result of those there is unfortunately also some breaking changes (however 1.4 can replace v1.3-versioned vst3). See https://github.com/sjoerdvankreel/infer ... istory.txt for changelog.

Nice, i'm sticking with the 1.2 version as i'm close to being done, really liked the sounds i've got out of the synth but a few bugbears.


please change the scale of any of the knobs that deal with frequencies, low frequencies should take up more of the knob than high frequencies, when dealing with the filters i had to shift click move the knobs in bitwig rather than the gui as i just couldn't get the precision i needed.

like this
https://www.idrumtune.com/wp-content/up ... uments.png
I think you're using JUCE so this might help? https://github.com/sudara/melatonin_parameters


I'm not a huge fan of the way you have envelopes
I got it eventually but its very confusing compared to click and drag ones. https://github.com/getdunne/juce-MultiS ... eGenerator might be useful

[sjoerdvankreel]

@MadMcMan

<< really liked the sounds

Good to hear.

<< please change the scale of any of the knobs that deal with frequencies, low frequencies should take up more of the knob than high frequencies

Already the case, on freq knobs that go from 20 to 20k the middle position is around 5000. In your example middle comes out at around 1000 which i agree is much better. Im thinking this might also apply to the ADSR sections.

<< as i just couldn't get the precision i needed
Are you aware you can just type in the value of the last tweaked knob in the edit section (above the theme selector)?

<< I'm not a huge fan of the way you have envelopes
The major reason why i didnt do MSEG is because i didnt feel like writing the gui. So thanks for the link

[MadMcMan]

<< as i just couldn't get the precision i needed
Are you aware you can just type in the value of the last tweaked knob in the edit section (above the theme selector)?

yes but it breaks the workflow, i want to feel the difference if you know what i mean.

[MadMcMan]

https://soundcloud.com/madmcman/echo-forge

Here's my OSC for the month.

All sounds made by InfernalsSynth from scratch.

Stats:
34x Infernalsynth
Infernalsynth FX

Plugin:
Airwindows KplateA
Airwindows PurestGain
BusterSe
Dragonfly Hall
FreeClip
KClip Zero
KHs TranceGate
Limiter No6
Pancake 2
PanFlow
STFU
Supercharger
Supermassive
TDR Kotelnikov
TDR Molotok
TDR Nova
TDR Vos SlickEQ
Wider

Biwig:
Arpegiator
Chain
Drum Machine
Echo
EQ-2
EQ+
FX Selector
Gate
Humanize
Instrument Layer
Instrument Selector
Key Filter
Mid Side Split
Note Delay
Note Grid
Note Transpose
Peak Limiter
Quantize
Tool

[BrainBeatMusic]

Hi guys here is my entry. After some feedback from Gethiox on Discord it would seem I have clicking in the spot where my track speeds up in tempo which I now think is a plugin issues when using anything synced. I hope I have time to fix it before the end of the month but if not here is what I have.

Sorry for the lateness of this info I used 15 instances in Ableton Live with the following effects.
Multiband compressor, EQ Eight, Color Limiter, glue compressor, Reverb, Ozone Imager 2, Utility, spectrum, Infernalsynth FX, Arpeggiator, limiter, master_me, Youlean loudness meter 2.

https://soundcloud.com/user-783020495/i ... al_sharing

[sjoerdvankreel]

@ MadMcMan

<< yes but it breaks the workflow
Yeah i can imagine.

@BrainBeatMusic
<< clicking in the spot where my track speeds up in tempo which I now think is a plugin issues when using anything synced
Very well possible - envelope stage length is precalculated up front. Never thought of this.

[BrainBeatMusic]

@BrainBeatMusic
<< clicking in the spot where my track speeds up in tempo which I now think is a plugin issues when using anything synced
Very well possible - envelope stage length is precalculated up front. Never thought of this.

I guess tempo changes are not that common in most recent music especially so when done over time. It is not so much an issue with my envelope but for the delay, it looks like I am going to have to use an external delay which doesn't sound as nice. It's unfortunate for me it was only noticed this late in the month as I might have had more time to work out a better workaround.