Combinator reveals Reason's weakness

[shamann]

Which things then?

Says the packs ship with Combinator patches. So I'd guess clever sound layering etc.

Squids would have to fill in the rest.

[DHR53]

I just noticed something, that is not too cool for me! I aways send the patterns in Redrum to track, and group them... So I would ususally just select the redrum, and mark the beginning and end in the sequencer and zap them in... But I jut realized, if the redrum is in a combinator (which I thought might be a cool way to do redrums) the track shows a combinator, and doesn't recognize it as a redrum?? So I need to open the combinator, select the redrum, and tell the program I want to send it to the combinator track! Kind of defeats the purpose of using the combinator?? But I guess that applies to pattern devices, so not really a problem for instrument patches... Hmmm, seems I won't be able to use the combinator with redrums, that way??

[r2101]

on the props board someone wrote that u can still create sequencer channels for devices inside the combinator... should be possible to drop the pattern to this track then...

[Squids]

I am telling you that there's more to R3 than you might think. Check this out: http://www.sonicreality.com/news/R3Refills.php

I know you're a nice and cool dude, Squids, but I completely fail to see what this has got to do with Reason at all - others than being some rather shameless self promotion. It's a set of samples - so what?

I won't deny self promotion but that comes with the territory as I work in this industry making sounds. But, the relevance there was that these were Reason THREE refills using the Combinator and each one sort of turns the Combinator into a rompler/sound module if you will. So, it is the "combination" of sound content, programming and all of the modules/fx you can put together under the Combinator that make it interesting... at least to some people.

[Squids]

Ad copy says they take full advantage of the new features like the Combinator. So perhaps it was to show that new things could be done with v3.

OK, point taken.

Which things then?

The Combinator of course. Each one of the refills for Reason 3 now has its own custom backdrop for the Combinator (which is fun to have a face for the sound collections in Reason finally) and the patches are more interesting because they utilize multiple modules to make one sound so you can have a matrix connected to an NNXT through a bunch of effects and special midi controller assignments such as what we did with the Vocal Textures and the consonant attacks or just lush pads with 4 NNXTs and some simple delays and phasers like we did in Retro Keys. These libraries were already out for 2.5 but having the Combinator and updating them to R3 made them even better. That was my point. Reason 3 + Content = Improvments for Reason users!

I've been privy to reading a lot of your emails on a certain beta team's endless stream of responses We contributed sounds to that "shall remain nameless plugin" too. Different thing entirely of course. But, to me it's all good stuff for being creative. I use both as well as my IK stuff of course. They are some of my favorite pieces to work with for different reasons (npi).

[Sascha Franck]

Thanks for the clearance, Squids.
And about that "shall remain nameless" plugin, well, I've been checking your sounds and liked them. Just, being a "string player" (mainly guitar, parttime bass player), I may not have as much use as some others for them. They're excellent samples anyways (never doubted that at all), so I guess people will like them a lot.

Regards,
Sascha

[Squids]

Thanks for the clearance, Squids.
And about that "shall remain nameless" plugin, well, I've been checking your sounds and liked them. Just, being a "string player" (mainly guitar, parttime bass player), I may not have as much use as some others for them. They're excellent samples anyways (never doubted that at all), so I guess people will like them a lot.

Regards,
Sascha

Cool. Have you tried the surround cathedral pipe organ? That one is fun too.

[DHR53]

on the props board someone wrote that u can still create sequencer channels for devices inside the combinator... should be possible to drop the pattern to this track then...

Although you can identify the track as a Redrum track, to send the pattern to it in the sequencer, the Redrum HAS to be selected... So if you had a Redrum combinator with a bunch of FX and mixers, you'd have to unfold that everytime you wanted to: A. create a pattern and B. send one of them to the track in the sequencer... So although the combinator appears to be one unit, it must be accessed in the sequencer (it appears) as mutiple items! Could get very confusing AFAIK... It was always sort of a pain to have to switch back and forth from the rack to the sequenecer to do compositions, but I was used to it... Now I see some problems with the combinator, that would appear...is better for live playing, than actual composing within Reason... But maybe more of an issue with pattern devices??

[Bassballjg]

on the props board someone wrote that u can still create sequencer channels for devices inside the combinator... should be possible to drop the pattern to this track then...

Although you can identify the track as a Redrum track, to send the pattern to it in the sequencer, the Redrum HAS to be selected... So if you had a Redrum combinator with a bunch of FX and mixers, you'd have to unfold that everytime you wanted to: A. create a pattern and B. send one of them to the track in the sequencer... So although the combinator appears to be one unit, it must be accessed in the sequencer (it appears) as mutiple items! Could get very confusing AFAIK... It was always sort of a pain to have to switch back and forth from the rack to the sequenecer to do compositions, but I was used to it... Now I see some problems with the combinator, that would appear...is better for live playing, than actual composing within Reason... But maybe more of an issue with pattern devices??

I may not be understanding your issue properly, but it doesn't sound like any extra work relative to 2.5, you have to select the device to send its pattern to track. Or am I missing something that is supposed to be different now? Isn't the Combinator a MIDI object in its own right and a pattern device still a pattern device? Therefore a track may adress the Combinator and its contents through the Combinator, and/or you export from a pattern device to track which would play back the Combinator.

I don't have the update yet, but will be getting it asap. Dan, would you write me with your detailed impressions and what you think are the real creative potential opportunities are, what is a PITA and overall impressions?

[braj]

I believe the issue you're discussing regarding Redrum and sequencing only exists if you haven't saved you combi patch. Once you save it, then you can select the combi instance and it will correctly play your drums. I just did this myself. Works marvelously.

[DHR53]

Hey John... Just got mine, so I'm muddling along, trying to figure out how to use it... I send all my drum patterns to track, and group them... So when I created a combinator with a redrum, and tried to select the combinator to send the pattern to track... Can't do that! You have to unfold the combinator, and select the Redrum... then make sure the combinator track is set to the Redrum... Which leads me to believe the idea with the combinator is more Live performance oriented... you know, change patterns while playing with the kybd. kind of thing (like a beatbox)... I guess I'm more of a "piece the parts together" in the sequencer type! I'll send you a detailed e-mail... when I get a little time to mess around with it...

[FaX]

Hey John... Just got mine, so I'm muddling along, trying to figure out how to use it... I send all my drum patterns to track, and group them... So when I created a combinator with a redrum, and tried to select the combinator to send the pattern to track... Can't do that! You have to unfold the combinator, and select the Redrum... then make sure the combinator track is set to the Redrum... Which leads me to believe the idea with the combinator is more Live performance oriented... you know, change patterns while playing with the kybd. kind of thing (like a beatbox)... I guess I'm more of a "piece the parts together" in the sequencer type! I'll send you a detailed e-mail... when I get a little time to mess around with it...

Yes but if you have a rythmic combi with patch tweaks like the SqPusher-ish combi and you jam live and hit run patern devices etc all that automation records to the combi track so in some respects the data doesn't need to be bumped to the track IMHO.

[DHR53]

I believe the issue you're discussing regarding Redrum and sequencing only exists if you haven't saved you combi patch. Once you save it, then you can select the combi instance and it will correctly play your drums. I just did this myself. Works marvelously.

Saving the patch has nothing to do with sending patterns to a track... The device needs to be selected first (Redrum), then the track your sending to... (Redrum track)...

But if you create a combinator, that's what shows up in the track, unless you select (manually) one of the instruments within the combinator... In other words you can't send a pattern to a combinator track, because it won't even show up in the edit menu... So if you have a combinator with a bunch of stuff and a Redrum... to send those patterns to track you would need to: A. Unfold the combinator, select the Redrum... B. make sure the track is changed from combinator to Redrum... So if your drum combinator is 12 devices, that's a lot of unfolding to send some drum patterns to the track, while your composing?? But apparently, they are viewing this as a live playback thing... sort of like a beatbox, change the patterns on the fly with combinator buttons while recording, maybe... I usually create a bunch of patterns and then send them to the track, as I'm putting the whole composition together

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[braj]

I believe the issue you're discussing regarding Redrum and sequencing only exists if you haven't saved you combi patch. Once you save it, then you can select the combi instance and it will correctly play your drums. I just did this myself. Works marvelously.

Saving the patch has nothing to do with sending patterns to a track... The device needs to be selected first (Redrum), then the track your sending to... (Redrum track)...

But if you create a combinator, that's what shows up in the track, unless you select (manually) one of the instruments within the combinator... In other words you can't send a pattern to a combinator track, because it won't even show up in the edit menu... So if you have a combinator with a bunch of stuff and a Redrum... to send those patterns to track you would need to: A. Unfold the combinator, select the Redrum... B. make sure the track is changed from combinator to Redrum... So if your drum combinator is 12 devices, that's a lot of unfolding to send some drum patterns to the track, while your composing?? But apparently, they are viewing this as a live playback thing... sort of like a beatbox, change the patterns on the fly with combinator buttons while recording, maybe... I usually create a bunch of patterns and then send them to the track, as I'm putting the whole composition together

Ok, sorry I misunderstood. But what is so hard about it? If you are composing beats in ReDrum, you already have it unfolded, right? And then copying the pattern to the track works. You'll get the message about 'another device...' but that can just be clicked through.