KVR Audio

hello1234 · Post by **hello1234** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:09 pm

JohnVulich wrote:
tetraplan wrote:KVR is very Windows-centric, I suppose.

Groet, Erik
Ya think that maybe it has something to do with the fact that Macs comprise only 2-3% of the whole home computer market?

That much? Seriously.....I thought is was closer to one percent.......

hello1234 · Post by **hello1234** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:11 pm

JohnVulich wrote:
deggy wrote:
deggy wrote:
I noticed that. I don't think there are any reviews of the newly included Logic Plugs for Logic 7 in the reviews section.
While I'm at it, why hasn’t anyone reviewed any of the Waves stuff either. At least these plugs are actually mentioned in the Effects section. However, next to nobody has written a review. Weird.
Hmmm, maybe it has something to do with the fact that they are outrageously expensive?

Yes. If they are that good, I'd have to be convinced......which isn't going to happen cause they are too expensive.........

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:12 pm

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/10/29.6.shtml

dunno how accurate that is or whether its changed much since though ...

slainte

rob

hello1234 · Post by **hello1234** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:12 pm

braj wrote:
tetraplan wrote:
JohnVulich wrote:
tetraplan wrote:KVR is very Windows-centric, I suppose.

Groet, Erik
Ya think that maybe it has something to do with the fact that Macs comprise only 2-3% of the whole home computer market?
What percentage of users in the home computer market is actively making music?

Groet, Erik
What percentage of forum posters here are actually making music

That's nowhere near as much fun as shopping for new toys or debating what's good and what isn't......

hello1234 · Post by **hello1234** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:15 pm

pHz wrote:http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/10/29.6.shtml

dunno how accurate that is or whether its changed much since though ...

slainte rob

Actually, that's probalby pretty acurate.......probably mac is not "shrinking" it's just that windows is growing.......if that makes sense the way I wrote it.......

escalation746 · Post by **escalation746** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:55 pm

eyeknow666 wrote:Actually, that's probalby pretty acurate.......probably mac is not "shrinking" it's just that windows is growing.

On the server side both are losing out to LINUX, which has pretty well trounced them. I know I converted the company I work for away from Windows servers -- the price alone is a huge incentive. And LINUX takes no more to administer than Windows, often less.

On the desktop I am surprised Apple doesn't do better, since they have good laptops at decent prices. And the iPod got a lot of mind-share.

Strange thing about Microsoft is I can think of not one single piece of software they have written that was not crap. Windows only got good after they partnered with IBM and produced the 32-bit version. Visio they bought. FoxPro they bought. Word is a steaming pile of, er, dung. Windows Media Player is much less preferable than the free Media Player Classic. And so it goes.

Good thing M$ never made an audio app.

AD80 · Post by **AD80** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:21 pm

escalation746 wrote:
since they have good laptops at decent prices.

Did they release some new models or something? All I see is outdated processors at ridiculus prices.

o'malley · Post by **o'malley** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:25 pm

gunnare · Post by **gunnare** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:32 pm

Cubase 5,1. Its quite old, but I like the graphics, and I own a *Tascam 428 soundcard which is specially designed to work with cubase 5,1.

I will try Chaniner after a thread that I read yesterday. It seems good for live playing.

And I hate the graphics of the new CubaseSX.

warp x · Post by **warp x** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:00 pm

On Mac:

DP4.6
Melodyne
PTLE
Live4
T2

On Linux:

Ardour

escalation746 · Post by **escalation746** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:54 pm

AD80 wrote:
escalation746 wrote: since they have good laptops at decent prices.
Did they release some new models or something? All I see is outdated processors at ridiculus prices.

Well, we are obviously not looking in the same places.

Since it's difficult to get sensible hardware in Ireland, I'll use UK pricing. And I'll try to compare two equal systems, more or less.

Here's a Mac, direct from the Apple store, so I'm sure you could trim some cost by buying elsewhere:

PowerBook G4
PowerPC G4 1.5GHz
15.2" display at 1280x854
512MB RAM
80 GB Ultra ATA/100
8x DVD writer
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 with 64MB
firewire 800 / modem / 2xUSB / gig ethernet
802.11g / Bluetooth (3-Mbps version 2.0)
PCMCIA
backlit keyboard
Mac OS X Tiger
2.5kg

And here's a good laptop with a pretty cool styling, though nothing as neat as the PowerBook:

Samsung P40 HZM 750
Pentium M 1.86 GHz
15" display at 1400x1050
512 MB RAM
80 GB UDMA 5400 rpm
4x DVD writer
ATI Radeon X600 with 128MB
firewire / modem / 4xUSB / ethernet
802.11b/g / Bluetooth
PCMCIA
fingerprint reader / card reader
Windows XP Pro
2.7 kg

The prices in pound sterling is 1480 versus 1410. Looks pretty much a dead heat to me, though the Mac comes with a lot more usable apps out of the box. Features vary a little but there you go.

Any statement about grossly overpriced Apple computers seems more a matter of belief than fact.

AD80 · Post by **AD80** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:04 am

Just as an example, look at where the 1.8ghz P-M is on this list, now look at where the so called "Powerbook" is. Paying the same price for half the performance is not a "dead heat". No matter how stylish the thing is.

http://66.221.205.118/adamjay/Live4CPU_2.jpg

escalation746 · Post by **escalation746** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:20 am

AD80 wrote:Just as an example, look at where the 1.8ghz P-M is on this list, now look at where the so called "Powerbook" is. Paying the same price for half the performance is not a "dead heat". No matter how stylish the thing is.

http://66.221.205.118/adamjay/Live4CPU_2.jpg

That's just a list of numbers with no justification, testing methodologies, etc. Are there additional docs elsewhere? I would like to see them.

Nonetheless, these sorts of comparisons are inherently flawed for many reasons, not least of which are the differences in the operating systems, app builds, etc. Does the same app doing the same thing on both computers actually take twice as long on the Apple? I would bet it does not.

Raw processing speed has not been the bottleneck in (most) applications for a long time. For audio with RME cards there is zero extra processor load, since it's being done onboard. So what becomes a far better measure of performance is the latency one can achieve. Even then, that doesn't matter much for people doing hardware monitoring.

Look at it another way: My computer is two years old but it's still fast enough for everything I do. Speed is not the issue. But if some old task is made easier or some little efficiency bottleneck is removed my experience of using the computer is so much nicer! A practical example: Firefox, which rocks compared to IE.

I'd rather have good design than a small increase in actual application speed. (If it is actually a real-world doubling like the chart implies then that's a different matter.)

Nonetheless I would never buy an Apple because it won't run Samplitude.

jens · Post by **jens** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:22 am

escalation746 wrote: Raw processing speed has not been the bottleneck in (most) applications for a long time.

hoewever it clearly is the bottleneck for music-production! (and it will always be as plugin algorithms become better and better but also take more and more resources) - What do you think is freezing for?

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:01 am

escalation746 wrote:On the desktop I am surprised Apple doesn't do better, since they have good laptops at decent prices.

No they don't! They are 2 years behind PC laptops in CPU power and way over priced.

yet another "What's your host?" thread