Camel Audio ceasing sales? [Update: CA acquired by Apple]

[Burillo]

Commercial software owned by a company no longer in business

Go easy on this issue, there was a major battle in the forum just a month ago concering the AlgoMusic plugs

I'm just trying to understand what the difference is between somebody selling me their ARP 2600 (ARP has long been out of business) or somebody selling me their Camel Audio Alchemy. As long as they actually transfer the license to me and remove the software from their PC, I don't see the difference.

again, "letter vs. intent", with a healthy does of corporate lobbying.

hardware is not like software. when you buy hardware, you own hardware. when you buy software, you don't own the software - you own the license to use the software. these entities are treated differently by the law. in layman's terms, it translates to "you can do whatever software developer tells you you are allowed to do", instead of "you can do whatever you want with it because you bought it". Camel Audio's license terms technically allow resale, but software sale and resale always involve the developer. and since the developer is no longer around, it is not legally possible for you to transfer your license to anyone.

i wholeheartedly agree that intuitively, you should be allowed to do with your license whatever you want (well, within reasonable limits - obviously you can't share it with multiple people for example), and no one should care once said software becomes orphan work because the developer is no longer around. but sadly, this is not what today's copyright legislation landscape looks like. don't confuse "whether it harms anyone" with "whether it's legal".

[trimph1]

Commercial software owned by a company no longer in business

Go easy on this issue, there was a major battle in the forum just a month ago concering the AlgoMusic plugs

I'm just trying to understand what the difference is between somebody selling me their ARP 2600 (ARP has long been out of business) or somebody selling me their Camel Audio Alchemy. As long as they actually transfer the license to me and remove the software from their PC, I don't see the difference.

Maybe you don't but others do see the difference. Anytime someone buys a vintage hardware synth they already have access to replacement parts. And can fix the issue on their own

Software issues are different in kind. You are buying a LICENSE... not the thing in and of itself

[wagtunes]

Okay, here it is.

Commercial software owned by a company no longer in business

Often, no entity defends the copyright if such software is put onto abandonware websites. An example of this is Digital Research's original PL/I compiler for DOS. The rights to the software cannot be bought by another company; therefore, there is no possibility for a lawsuit.

So if CA goes out of business and abandons this software, there can be no lawsuit brought forth for purchasing a 3rd party copy.

Thank you.

Copyright does not dissipate in the absence of a commercial business.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Copyrights, if not renewed, do not last forever. Eventually unrenewed copyrights go into the public domain. So eventually, if CA does not renew the copyright (and I see no reason why they would if they're closing their doors) Alchemy WILL go into the public domain.

Of course then there is the issue of how to even get it to work on your computer if the software itself ties into an online validation process like many do.

It's really a shame that it isn't as easy to purchase 2nd hand software as it is hardware. I am sure there are many future CA buyers out there who would be willing to give CA or anybody their money for the product who have no way of doing it.

Makes about as much sense to me as a supermarket having shelves of food and telling customers they have to go hungry.

[H.86]

the guys at CA have left the VST development industry to start a death metal band now that they have their vocalist.

[trimph1]

Give some of us hunt and peck guys a chance here!!!

Sheeesh!!!

[whyterabbyt]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Copyrights, if not renewed, do not last forever. Eventually unrenewed copyrights go into the public domain. So eventually, if CA does not renew the copyright (and I see no reason why they would if they're closing their doors) Alchemy WILL go into the public domain..

Correct, you may redistribute Alchemy at least 70 years from now.

[CE3]

Were they open and selling products 48 hours ago?

They sent no emails out to customers, gave no notice, explanation, apology... Just bye.

Regardless of the reasons behind the closure, the way this is being handled is extremely unprofessional and disappointing.

[Burillo]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Copyrights, if not renewed, do not last forever. Eventually unrenewed copyrights go into the public domain. So eventually, if CA does not renew the copyright (and I see no reason why they would if they're closing their doors) Alchemy WILL go into the public domain..

Correct, you may redistribute Alchemy at least 70 years from now.

...unless Disney intervenes again

[beely]

Have we melted the KVR server yet..?

I smell burning...

[wagtunes]

Commercial software owned by a company no longer in business

Go easy on this issue, there was a major battle in the forum just a month ago concering the AlgoMusic plugs

I'm just trying to understand what the difference is between somebody selling me their ARP 2600 (ARP has long been out of business) or somebody selling me their Camel Audio Alchemy. As long as they actually transfer the license to me and remove the software from their PC, I don't see the difference.

again, "letter vs. intent", with a healthy does of corporate lobbying.

hardware is not like software. when you buy hardware, you own hardware. when you buy software, you don't own the software - you own the license to use the software. these entities are treated differently by the law. in layman's terms, it translates to "you can do whatever software developer tells you you are allowed to do", instead of "you can do whatever you want with it because you bought it". Camel Audio's license terms technically allow resale, but software sale and resale always involve the developer. and since the developer is no longer around, it is not legally possible for you to transfer your license to anyone.

i wholeheartedly agree that intuitively, you should be allowed to do with your license whatever you want (well, within reasonable limits - obviously you can't share it with multiple people for example), and no one should care once said software becomes orphan work because the developer is no longer around. but sadly, this is not what today's copyright legislation landscape looks like. don't confuse "whether it harms anyone" with "whether it's legal".

Well, then this is messed up. You've probably got people with licenses right now who don't want them anymore because they know they can't get support or replacements after July 7 if their house burns down who can't sell them and you have people who really want the software who are willing to buy the software from these very same people who want to dump it, but can't.

Like I said, this is messed up.

[fmr]

...and similarly - do we know what happened to the original staff/regular developers?

The only developer, AFAIK, was Andrea Gozzi, which was also a longtime Emagic Betatester, and, again AFAIK, in now na Apple employee, working in the Logic team in Rellingen.

[beely]

Regardless of the reasons behind the closure, the way this is being handled is extremely unprofessional.

No, it's handled *exactly* the way professional corporate business and law requires in a buyout... it's just not how you'd like to handle it (and that is often true for the other parties involved).

[wasi]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Copyrights, if not renewed, do not last forever. Eventually unrenewed copyrights go into the public domain. So eventually, if CA does not renew the copyright (and I see no reason why they would if they're closing their doors) Alchemy WILL go into the public domain..

Correct, you may redistribute Alchemy at least 70 years from now.

Beat me to it, lol. 70 years after the death of the author.

Until then, you may however buy or sell a legally acquired copy of the software.

[wagtunes]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Copyrights, if not renewed, do not last forever. Eventually unrenewed copyrights go into the public domain. So eventually, if CA does not renew the copyright (and I see no reason why they would if they're closing their doors) Alchemy WILL go into the public domain..

Correct, you may redistribute Alchemy at least 70 years from now.

Beat me to it, lol. 70 years after the death of the author.

Until then, you may however buy or sell a legally acquired copy of the software.

Actually, I'm being told I can't. A legally acquired copy of the software cannot be bought or sold because the company controlling the licensing transfer has taken that ability off their site. So if you have the software right now, you're stuck with it.

Sorry, but IMO, that is beyond crazy.

[trimph1]

Have we melted the KVR server yet..?

I smell burning...

So that is what I am smelling...