Software vs. Analog in 2025 – Has the Balance Shifted?

[IvyBirds]

Regarding A/B test why not go for a null test instead? Completely remove human error from the equation. If any differences exist in software vs hardware that may be the most scientific way to get to the bottom of things. But usually software centered people will claim hardware units vary in sound from unit to unit so that's why they don't null

You have already indicated just pressing a key is not a good test so why would being able to make something null be the ultimate test?

No one is saying that differences don't exist, the point being made is that any perceived differences are not really important

Null test remove human bias and show if something is indeed identical or not. A/B test can be misleading or intentionally biased to fool people to one side or the other. If you are confident software synths sound the same as hardware, a Null test setup properly would be the ultimate way to prove that no?

So now you admit differences exist? I can’t believe it! You’ve been saying in this thread and others that software sounds the same as hardware. Glad you’re being honest

Why does anything have to sound identical to the point of it nulling? What is the point? How would you even do an A/B test with a hardware and a software synth to null or even two hardware synths for that matter as the gain staging would have to be exactly the same to get a null as would the tuning

Then you have to factor in variability in components, age, calibration, temperature etc

If however two things sound so similar to each other that you feel a null test is what is needed than any perceived differences are so small they don't matter in the least

But the bigger question is why do things have to sound exactly the same in the first place to claim there is not any advantage in one or other?

[IvyBirds]

Yeah, I think far too little attention is paid to analog VCA's when all the various analysis happens.

Sure back in the 1970s, but with modern VCAs that are very precise and driven by a computer there really is no need to pay attention as they are digital in nature

Now if you are talking about some Eurorack module that is a different story

[ghettosynth]

Yeah, I think far too little attention is paid to analog VCA's when all the various analysis happens.

Sure back in the 1970s, but with modern VCAs that are very precise and driven by a computer there really is no need to pay attention as they are digital in nature

Driven by a computer? You don't say. Close up the thread boys, it's all computer up in here.

[_leras]

. Last time I posted one, no one on the "analog forever" camp bothered to guess at all, and the one guess I got said, "I really can't tell." I don't even bother anymore, because I know it will be ignored and if people guess wrong, they'll accuse me of somehow cheating.

All I know is that an awful lot of hardware synths have been rejected by me because I found nothing exciting about them that I wasn't getting from a plugin. Some have remained, but it's not necessarily because they did something better, though that has definitely happened, but because they just had a specific type of character that I found interesting. I can say the same thing about plugins. I think Opal is one of the best sounding synthesizers of its kind, including hardware.

Err.. I guessed and quite a few of the examples it was clear which was analog, though yes, some types of sounds were as good as close enough. I also said I'm sure a different selection of sounds would make it much more clear.

I'm sure some synths didn't grab you sonically and that's fine.

If you meant UAD Opal, then yes, it superb. I slightly more modern and useable UI would help though. It's not 'hard' to program, but is limited in ways you wouldn't expect of a modern synth.

[pixelizer]

I had fun making a website that lists all the virtual versions of synthesizers. Just leaving this here in case anyone's interested
https://virtualsynthesizers.com/synthesizers/

newf.png

[ghettosynth]

URL?

[pdxindy]

But in the end, yes there are differences, but all that really matters is:

Does the filter sound good?
Does it behave well when you modulate it?
and for some of us:
Can it self-oscillate nicely?

If those are all true of your software filter then you are good to go, but the analog folks are right in that there will be differences. Whether or not you can hear them is a separate question.

Analog filters don't just sound different, they sound better.

Of course if you are just rolling off some highs or lows, then it doesn't matter at all. Once you start upping the resonance and modulating cutoff or controlling input gain, then the analog filters start to separate themselves. And when you push the filter to the edge of instability, then the analog filters shine while digital filters start to fail.

Can I get some satisfying sounds out of my software filters? Sure, but if I could take my favorite softsynths and somehow magically make the filters analog? I would do it in an instant cause there is only sonic upside.

[IvyBirds]

Yeah, I think far too little attention is paid to analog VCA's when all the various analysis happens.

Sure back in the 1970s, but with modern VCAs that are very precise and driven by a computer there really is no need to pay attention as they are digital in nature

Driven by a computer? You don't say. Close up the thread boys, it's all computer up in here.

Are you surprised that the so called VCA in modern Analog Synths is controlled digitally by a computer?

Computers can regulate voltages quite efficiently

[IvyBirds]

But in the end, yes there are differences, but all that really matters is:

Does the filter sound good?
Does it behave well when you modulate it?
and for some of us:
Can it self-oscillate nicely?

If those are all true of your software filter then you are good to go, but the analog folks are right in that there will be differences. Whether or not you can hear them is a separate question.

Analog filters don't just sound different, they sound better.

Define better? How do we measure what "better" is?

Can I get some satisfying sounds out of my software filters? Sure, but if I could take my favorite softsynths and somehow magically make the filters analog? I would do it in an instant cause there is only sonic upside.

Define how we measure what "satisfying" is and universally apply it to everyone

I find having unlimited polyphony, and the freedom to chose multiple filter types and switch them instantly, to be satisfying while having limited polyphony and a single filter option to be anything but satisfying

And BTW polyphony and options are measurable and repeatable for everyone

If you think they sound better for yourself in your application, and can deal with the limitations and lack of options awesome, but that's not a universal truth

[pixelizer]

URL?

It’s done, I added the URL, I modified my post

[ghettosynth]

Yeah, I think far too little attention is paid to analog VCA's when all the various analysis happens.

Sure back in the 1970s, but with modern VCAs that are very precise and driven by a computer there really is no need to pay attention as they are digital in nature

Driven by a computer? You don't say. Close up the thread boys, it's all computer up in here.

Are you surprised that the so called VCA in modern Analog Synths is controlled digitally by a computer?

Computers can regulate voltages quite efficiently

Is that what's important for the sound, "regulating voltages" ?

[stoopicus]

Analog filters don't just sound different, they sound better.
(good examples snipped)

I personally agree and specifically getting digital filters to modulate in as natural sounding and pleasing a way as the original analog continuous time filter can be challenging in terms of approaching fidelity to the original filter being modeled.

[zerocrossing]

Yeah, I think far too little attention is paid to analog VCA's when all the various analysis happens.

Sure back in the 1970s, but with modern VCAs that are very precise and driven by a computer there really is no need to pay attention as they are digital in nature

Driven by a computer? You don't say. Close up the thread boys, it's all computer up in here.

Are you surprised that the so called VCA in modern Analog Synths is controlled digitally by a computer?

Computers can regulate voltages quite efficiently

Is that what's important for the sound, "regulating voltages" ?

Sure. Isn't that ultimately what all synthesizers are?

From my vantage point, the "analog just sounds better" people are mostly suffering from confirmation bias. Not that all emulations are equal, of course, just as all analog synths aren't equal. When I had a Deepmind 12, I wasn't satisfied with the basic sound. The filter went from not quite enough resonance to harsh screamy, with no sweet spot in between, and the PWM was the weirdest and worst sounding PWM I'd ever heard. One day I set up Roland's Juno 106 plugin and easily bested the Deepmind. By a lot. I did the effects in software, which are a big part of that synth.

On the other side of that coin, Arturia's got a whole bunch of mediocre legacy emulations that are definitely not as good as the originals, or even other modern hardware synthesizers. Diva's great for a lot of things, but it's old and you can find its weak spots. The Legend is great... if you stay away from the feedback, which is very weak in comparison to the original. I'd wager that only a small number of Model D users ever bothered to do the feedback trick.

Note, that every synth mentioned above can create phenomenal sounds and easily cover all of 70s and 80s pop music. No problem. The parts where the "magic" of an analog filter comes to play was just never really represented. The late 80s, and 90s were a different story, when bands like Skinny Puppy, Front 242 and NIN, and acid became a thing. That's when I thought people really started using synths in an interesting way, IMO. Harder, more aggressive sounds. Not trying to sound like strings or horns. Harder to reproduce in software, for sure, but I'm telling you, you're wrong if you think this hasn't been done. Spend a few hours messing about with Softube Modular. Don't even bother trying to patch things, just go though the presets and tweak it. Maybe substitute out some modules, or add a VCO to modulate something. It's there. The "presence." The "life." The feedback on UAD's Model D is awesome. Their Anthem synth just came out and is dirty as anything, in the best way.

Or not. Do what you like. Softube Modular has to be one of the most annoying things to build a patch from scratch in. Voltage Modular is better, but the sound isn't on par. VCV rack can be great, but not all the stuff is equally good. Depends on the developer. Korg's ARP 2600 is also on par with anything, sounds every big as good as my Nina. Better, in some respects, as Nina doesn't do audio rate well. Korg's multi/poly is better at that. Serum too. Whatever. When they tell you you can't take your hardware into the nursing home, I'm going to be there with a laptop, pointing and laughing at you.

[zerocrossing]

Yeah, I think far too little attention is paid to analog VCA's when all the various analysis happens.

Sure back in the 1970s, but with modern VCAs that are very precise and driven by a computer there really is no need to pay attention as they are digital in nature

Now if you are talking about some Eurorack module that is a different story

Isn't every VCA in a synth with presets digitally controlled?

[ghettosynth]

Yeah, I think far too little attention is paid to analog VCA's when all the various analysis happens.

Sure back in the 1970s, but with modern VCAs that are very precise and driven by a computer there really is no need to pay attention as they are digital in nature

Driven by a computer? You don't say. Close up the thread boys, it's all computer up in here.

Are you surprised that the so called VCA in modern Analog Synths is controlled digitally by a computer?

Computers can regulate voltages quite efficiently

Is that what's important for the sound, "regulating voltages" ?

Sure. Isn't that ultimately what all synthesizers are?

No. I was taking the piss. This is like saying all good writing is about sharpening pencils.

I'm fairly certain that pdxindy was not simply referring to how some stored control voltage is stable as it exits the sample and hold from the dac multiplexor. He was talking about digital models of VCAs in the process of emulating an analog synth.

I should have just LOLed, I'm not taking this "technical" conversation seriously at this point.