july contest - GOSSIP

[Guitarjeff]

I'll give you two good reasons why I hate Toto: "Africa" and "Rosanna." There was a time when you could not turn on the f**king radio or TV without hearing either of those two pandering sappy sentimental everything-that-is-wrong-with-pop songs. I wouldn't care if it was Ludwig Van, I would still resent hearing it over and over every damn day. I don't think I can forgive them.

PS: Jeff, isn't there a bit of double standard when you tell Sciche you want to hold it against him that he named his song "Fahrenheit" when Toto has a whole album named the same?

"Pandering" because they were huge hits? I wish I had a song that pandered like those! I don't understand what could possibly be wrong with writing a song that appeals to and moves large amounts of people. Isn't that what most serious musicians strive for?

I certainly hope you are joking with the Double standard comment. Farrenheit by Toto was released way back during my other favorite President's tenure!

I don't hold anything against Sciche. That was just a little friendly political jab. Turnabout is fair play. Some do the same with my sig, and that's OK too. We all have our political views and that's totally cool. He said that using that title would lend credibility to the song. For me M.M. and credibility are polar opposites. But that is just me. If you are going to wear them on your sleeve people will disgaree sometimes. If felt he had the best recording, it would have been my #1. No question.

Using your logic, you could make the argument that using that title would be pandering to a certain audience. I wouldn't make it, but it could be made.

Personally, I love Rosanna. One of my favorite songs of all time. Africa I can live without although I think it's O.K. It doesn't catch my ear nearly as much though.

[xander]

- the important thing is a certain sense of originality and flair. But I know I'm biased. You fans may hear something in Toto's music that I do not.

...I'd take raw ideas tempered with sense of self and undogmatic ingenuity over impeccable skill and artistry almost every time.

...Suffice it to say that once an idea is adjusted (or compromised) in order to appeal to a broader audience, then there's some sell-out going on. I'm sure we all do a little of that. But when you start with mass-appeal and industry recognition in mind - you're manufacturing product.That is not what I want to make with my talent. I'm more keen on finding creative ways to express myself. Beyond presenting my work with the best rendering and craftsmanship I can muster, I don't care about the rest. I've had some measure of success as a visual artist so I'm not completely naive to how things work.

I hope my digression helps bring the discussion back to how it relates to us in the forum.

Flame away!

I hear you mate. I understand.

You might like some of their newer stuff and if you ever have the chance to see them live you might enjoy some of it - maybe.

For what it's worth though, in real life now they are almost anti-commercial, own their own label and tour a lot.

But what is cracking me up is that there is an extremely popular mega-hit boyband here called "Glay", which I have to assume, knowing the Japanese, is Jinglish for 'Gray'. Tonight there was a live concert on the TV - one in which they apparently couldn't use their 'Autotune' filters. It was hilarious. I mean it was freakin wretched

This takes your point to the extreme. I believe that the held-captive domestic music market in Japan (almost completely dominated by Sony Music) is the living incarnation of a 'free-music' hell.

It is thus an ideal model and current petri dish for what it would be like if the world becomes dominated by mega-corp 'Star Manufacturers'. It is so obvious and so bad as a result that it is simply hystrically funny - from an outsider's perspective at least.

They are churning these circus acts out on an almost monthly basis - with apparent planned obsolescence to allow scheduling in fresh market inventory for pre-charted and calculated mass appeal.

They even have retirement plans and socially acceptable 'exits' for newly defunct 'Stars' - they get to be on daytime TV game shows and host wacky sporting events for all the other obsolete 20-somethings. They then slide gracefully into the roles of 'Respected Stars of Yesteryear' and do the odd teary-eyed reunion tour - having made their nut in society.

But - for a people who find it difficult to think out of the box, it works! (which is the true, mind-bending horror of it to me).

...and now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[Guitarjeff]

Well, you got yer slammers and yer kissy-facers in every forum. I've heard lots of people put Toto down but their stated reasons are nonsense and most couldn't qualify to even tune their guitars.

Do I hear an Amen brutha!!

That said, I specifically mentioned Toto to you because they are known for being incredibly tight by most people I know, and this has been a typical comment about them over the years by many - they are almost 'unmercifully tight'! However, this really is an attribute because it simply isn't that easy to be that way in both studio and live as well. See them live and when they play Africa you can set your watch by the bar.

Ever see Scott Travis play Drums? (Priest and Racer x) Same thing!

So, I was being quite literal in my appraisal to you, with no innuendo (I don't do innuendo well) but sorry if it appeared that way.

Very cool. Thanks. That is truly a great compliment to be considered worthy of a band like Toto coming from a fan of the band!! I'm not worthy!

I heard that about 99 also - I think everyone at that time wanted a girl like 99 - sexy, pretty, great legs and perfectly forgiving, unconditional love and devotion no matter how f**king stupid and lame you get

All the exact reasons I married my wife! (well... "perfectly forgiving" might be a bit of a stretch)

Jeff was completely original and awesome and largely unknown to most - except to other pro drummers. Simon Phillips is great too, but to me.....

I feel the same way. The amount of records Jeff played on is Staggering. Did the man ever sleep? Simon is great in his own right, but doesn't touch Jeff in my opinion.

[You™]

"Pandering" because they were huge hits? I wish I had a song that pandered like those! I don't understand what could possibly be wrong with writing a song that appeals to and moves large amounts of people. Isn't that what most serious musicians strive for?.

I stand by what I said - even if it was a bit oversimplified. "...when you start with mass-appeal and industry recognition in mind - you're manufacturing product." I can't speak for all serious musicians. I can tell you many of the musicians and artists I know (most of whom aren't that serious ) are more interested in exploring the possibilities of communication/ideas that music and art provide.

I certainly hope you are joking with the Double standard comment. Farrenheit by Toto was released way back during my other favorite President's tenure!

... Using your logic, you could make the argument that using that title would be pandering to a certain audience. I wouldn't make it, but it could be made.

Yeah, that was a joke. I try... I understand your disdain for Michael Moore too. I don't see how you could have any love for a person who's on a crusade to discredit and topple your preferred political party and its nefarious corporate apparatus. But I think history will be the ultimate judge of credibility. I was really surprised to hear Ray Bradbury say such bad things about him though!

This takes your point to the extreme. I believe that the held-captive domestic music market in Japan (almost completely dominated by Sony Music) is the living incarnation of a 'free-music' hell.

It is thus an ideal model and current petri dish for what it would be like if the world becomes dominated by mega-corp 'Star Manufacturers'. It is so obvious and so bad as a result that it is simply hystrically funny - from an outsider's perspective at least.

They are churning these circus acts out on an almost monthly basis - with apparent planned obsolescence to allow scheduling in fresh market inventory for pre-charted and calculated mass appeal.

They even have retirement plans and socially acceptable 'exits' for newly defunct 'Stars' - they get to be on daytime TV game shows and host wacky sporting events for all the other obsolete 20-somethings. They then slide gracefully into the roles of 'Respected Stars of Yesteryear' and do the odd teary-eyed reunion tour - having made their nut in society...

That is truly bizarre. Japanese pop culture seems so incomprehensibly beautiful and banal at the same time. But I think they have a similar phony pop star franchise in Europe and over here we have "American Idol" which I assume is something like that. I'm just too busy trying to raise my post-count around here to watch TV.

[ugo]

I Ugo - The pants of Fury

thanks mark! im glad you dig it so much.

-ugo

[Sascha Franck]

FWIW, I don't like Toto's music too much (most of their stuff I don't like at all) because it misses anything "dirty", "earthy" or whatever you may call it.
Of course, productions are great, musicians are even better - but then, maybe they are just "too good". Everything just sounds too polished to me.

As a guitar player, I'm a bit split-minded. While I don't like Steve Lukathers music, he's one of the greatest guitar players ever. That dude not only knows how to play, he's funky as shit as well!
I've been watching some M.I. video once (no idea if it's available anywhere), and he was simply playing one of the best solos I've ever heard.
Sure, a lot of wankery as well - but then, as a guitarist you just want that every now and then, especially if it's done in such an incredible manner.

[pHz]

garret ...

... whatever youre on at the minute - I WANT SOME !!!

(my 1st ever (and prolly only ever) 1st place vote !!! )

and from someone usually so far away on the musical spectrum its UTTERLY unexpected ...

... thanks mate !!!

slainte rob

[Sicklecell666]

First Blue Grass, now Toto..

You guys eating Peyote or something..?

I thought I was the only certifiable here..

[pHz]

(on a more serious note)

in some ways this month has made think hard about what i do musically ...

... its the 1st time ive really entered one of our 'genre' contests and although my entry definitely isnt 'real' metal ir IS a less extreme version of what i usually produce ...

... and has so far garnered my best set of votes so far by far ...

(coupled with the (admittedly full of crap - often due to me) 'pop star' thread)

... do i stubbornly carry on ploughing my atonal / arhythymical furrow with only a few folks 'getting' it or ...

... try to take some of those values and integrate them into something more palateable to the 'masses' (not talking commercial success here - just producing something more accessible to more listeners) - hell ... i like a danceable groove too you know ???

(been listening to basement jaxx a little bit recently BTW)

humour me - semi-serious question - been drinking too quickly here tonight but i guess the core of this post is genuine

(or maybe the alchohol thing is just a convenient way of masking a REALLY serious question ??? )

slainte rob

[Sicklecell666]

Oh God..a drunken Admin

Everyone run for cover

[pHz]

heehee ...

... not drunken (you DONT want to see that - ask mick - and that wasnt even following PROPER drunk !!! )

just got to that had-a-couple-and-wouldnt-normally-post-this-but-its-a-genuine-thing-thats-on-my-mind stage ...

... you now ???

slainte rob

[bluedad]

(
... do i stubbornly carry on ploughing my atonal / arhythymical furrow with only a few folks 'getting' it or ...
slainte rob

..and how many of these tracks have you shared with us to know that only a few folks get it?

[pHz]

...

slainte rob

[You™]

(
... do i stubbornly carry on ploughing my atonal / arhythymical furrow with only a few folks 'getting' it or ...
slainte rob

..and how many of these tracks have you shared with us to know that only a few folks get it?

What he said.

[pHz]

talking mainly about contest entries there TBH gary ...

slainte rob