INSANE!! FL Academic Version Price Increase

Audio Plugin Hosts and other audio software applications discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Wormhelmet said..,
Lots of guff about pricing...
Taking out copy protection won't alter price one iota. That seems to be a much-vaunted myth floated around on the net. The big companies have found a price that customers will pay. The copy protection will cost them not much - it's only a licensing fee, and I can't imagine it's much. Look at the Korg stuff. You only pay $30 (I think that's right) for the dongle.
Compare Waves stuff - uses PACE and costs an arm and a leg, whereas devs like Princeton can release high quality plugins using PACE at quite alot less. They charge what they think is OK and what they think their customers will pay. If Princeton weren't selling Eventide algorithms, they probably couldn't even get away with charging anything close to their current price - the name sells it. Same as Logic, Cubase sell because of reputation. And reputations are often earned through product quality over many years, like it or not that it affects price.

You look at the main hosts which go back to the origins of s/w sequencers and they were never cheap. Never will be. Their price hasn't gone up in relation to warez...it's simply gone up in relation to price indexes, inflation and what they can charge. When I bought my 1st version of Cubase in 1990, it seemed like alot of money. Indeed, for what it did compared to what Cubase does today, SX is probably nowadays cheaper comparatively. I could only run a midi CubaseVST with a shitload of h/w. Now CubaseSX can do the whole shebang on its own.

But I will agree that FL is possibly destined for losses if they try to charge the same as the big boys. I think that's a fight they can only lose. The fact it's cheaper is what attracts the custom it does, and that's its attraction.

Copy Protection can be a bummer though. I personally have never minded a dongle - it just works quietly in the background, never caused me one second of angst. C/R puts me off though - that can be inconvenient, although not destructive. PACE has been very dodgy over the years and consequently I won't go near it, which means I lose out on one or two very good plugins.

But if they got rid of PACE, Dongles, C/R and even a simple registration number...I doubt very much I'd pay a cent less for anything. There are very few things in life that actually drop in price. If there's an outcry from enough people that prices stayed the same if copy protection was dropped, all the devs would need to do would be to throw in the odd extra feature for extra value (probably which most of us wouldn't actually use anyway).

Post

kritikon wrote:I completely missed the connection about cost saving to companies not having to hire third party security designers and passing the savings to thier customers in Wormhelmet's post
Customer's would pay less if companies like steinberg or waves stopped paying the protection companies big bucks to develop their all too easily cracked schemes and passed the savings on to the customers instead of keeping rediculous prices. Glad you dig your cubase and dongle though. :roll:
"I am a meat popsicle"
Soundcloud Vondragonnoggin
Soundclick Wormhelmet

Post

Of course it's not going to happen. those companies would find a way to keep it rediculously priced as you said, by putting in a stupid new feature nobody uses. that doesn't mean we can't wish they would do the right thing like that. Just like they wish they could come up with a scheme that couldn't get cracked. This is why there are so many warez users. Companies that price rediculously because they need to make up for piracy which is happening because they are too high priced, which happens because they have to pay for protection schemes made by third parties to stop piracy, which gives a challenge and reason for piracy to happen, etc, etc, etc and so the dog chases its tail.
"I am a meat popsicle"
Soundcloud Vondragonnoggin
Soundclick Wormhelmet

Post

Something i have noticed through life is that the people who have a moral standing on something that exceeds the norm, it's usually out of some form of guilt or another, or a way to cover something up.

You know the script....."oh, he seemed like such a nice guy, law abiding, helpful" blah blah blah......but it turns out they were one of the biggest heroin suppliers in the area, or he was the guy responsible for all those missing kids. Your personality is EXTREME....i wouldn't trust a person like you with ANY part of my life, let alone moral guidance.

Post

Reverse Engineer wrote:Something i have noticed through life is that the people who have a moral standing on something that exceeds the norm, it's usually out of some form of guilt or another, or a way to cover something up.

You know the script....."oh, he seemed like such a nice guy, law abiding, helpful" blah blah blah......but it turns out they were one of the biggest heroin suppliers in the area, or he was the guy responsible for all those missing kids. Your personality is EXTREME....i wouldn't trust a person like you with ANY part of my life, let alone moral guidance.

Two questions.

1. Who was that directed at?
2. Do you think my heroin is getting cracked and redistributed as warez? That would just be wrong! :x
"I am a meat popsicle"
Soundcloud Vondragonnoggin
Soundclick Wormhelmet

Post

Reverse Engineer wrote:Something i have noticed through life is that the people who have a moral standing on something that exceeds the norm, it's usually out of some form of guilt or another, or a way to cover something up.

You know the script....."oh, he seemed like such a nice guy, law abiding, helpful" blah blah blah......but it turns out they were one of the biggest heroin suppliers in the area, or he was the guy responsible for all those missing kids. Your personality is EXTREME....i wouldn't trust a person like you with ANY part of my life, let alone moral guidance.
damn I'm glad I don't live where you do, all the people I know who have a high moral standard is because they understand respect. For me it's just a matter of how I was raised.

My dad taught me at a young age that stealing doesn't solve your problems, it just dumps them on someone else. Being trustworthy and having pride in your honesty is a virtue. Some people like myself do not know any other way.

15 or so years ago I came home to my door kicked in and every piece of gear I owned was gone or destroyed. If some of that had been stolen by me first I would of deserved it. But I didn't steal someone else's gear to get back on my feet. It took a couple years just to get back where I was at before I got ripped off.

I'm sorry but there is no acceptable reason for using any cracked software, if you can't afford it, you wait until you can, you save until you can, you sacrifice until you can...taking the easy way out by using cracked software (even if you buy it later) shows me (and this is my opinion only) that a person has little or no character. I think it absurd of you to attack honest people with a pathetic blanketed statement like that.

If I wanted to "cover-up" for mistakes in life I have made plenty and am quite open about them. But even at my worst I still had the respect not to take what wasn't mine. Even during the worst of my coke addiction, I didn't steal. I never learned how, I am not equipped to handle the guilt.

I do have to say it takes a piece of work to turn around and attack the honest person and question their integrity just because they hold themselves to higher standards then you (in fact it makes one wonder if you're jealous of those who have the willpower, and personal power not to steal). I take pride, extreme pride that everyone who knows me well, knows they can trust me. That's how I want to be remembered.

To be quite honest, my music deserves the same kind of respect, my music would suffer if I had guilt over my gear. Even though I paid my dues and it took a lot longer then I hoped, I have earned the pride in my honesty I take, and I will make no apologies for having a higher then the norm moral standard...I have to make up for low class losers who can't grasp the idea of respect (to bad I couldn't be the norm because it's not all that hard).

But even better I when I got each piece of gear (even last fall when I hit on the lottery) man did it feel good to finally get that gear. Nothing on earth can replace that feeling of working hard for something and realizing your dreams, no matter how small that dream is. When you achieve that goal or dream it's a major victory in life and builds character, and makes you stronger and better.

FWIW the first delay unit I bought I saved nickles and dimes for better then 6 months until I had enough to get it. Not only did I get the piece of gear I wanted, I earned it and I deserved it. So as a result I also gained a whole lot more. I don't have that delay anymore, but I still have the benefits of working and waiting for it.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

Post

Well said, Hink. Agreement from here.

Post

Hink wrote:I do have to say it takes a piece of work to turn around and attack the honest person and question their integrity just because they hold themselves to higher standards then you (in fact it makes one wonder if you're jealous of those who have the willpower, and personal power not to steal)
What are you on about hink? Where in that did i ONCE state using anything illegal or theft was ok? and why are you implying that I do (unless you were referring to my warezed motif.....idiot)? Did you get the impression it was directed at you and it bothered you? Are you just another KVR bleating lamb? Only you really know hink.

I have no money nor a job right now, but even so I still don't use warez, i have morals, i don't litter the streets, i don't drink or take drugs, i do smoke though (but even that's gotta stop very soon.) Even with that i STILL don't go shoving my "morals" down other peoples throats no matter how inract they are or how much integrity i genuinely do have. One reason being, like you said, i make my mistakes, let others do the same.

Post

yeah, i think it's HIGHLY immoral to stuff down one's own morals other people's throats. and that's why the warez police gets attacked by people of a higher moral standard - in that area.... :hihi:

Post

you're the one who said that it's been your experience that people that exceeds the norm (what is the norm :shrug:), I simply was saying maybe where you are, but not in my world. I'm not saying that I live in honest town usa, I'm saying that I filter out the untrustworthy from my life. I do hold myself to a high standard, but it's not because I've got something to hide....because I don't, I do so out of pride. Obviously you hold yourself to the same standard so you too should take pride.

Trust me I have made my mistakes, made the wrong choices and such. I've kicked my own feet out from under myself more then once. However I would have no reason to hide anything, because I try very hard to learn from my mistakes. :)
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

Post

Hink wrote:I never learned how, I am not equipped to handle the guilt.
Hmm. I read that and thought "yep, you got it." Never really thought of it like that until now, and in retrospect I was always the same way. I've done it in the past, but it never lasted longer than five minutes because I could never handle the guilt. :shrug:
Hink wrote:I'm sorry but there is no acceptable reason for using any cracked software, if you can't afford it, you wait until you can, you save until you can, you sacrifice until you can...taking the easy way out by using cracked software (even if you buy it later) shows me (and this is my opinion only) that a person has little or no character.
I still don't think it's as black and white as you're making it out to be. I think Arke's idea of "trying before you buy" is a smart way of working around companies who purposely mislead you and don't offer reliable demos of their products, such as Edirol and MOTU. Back in the day, if you picked up a sound module, you could use it and it would sound relatively good (in many cases great). Nowadays it's not always like that, especially in MOTU's and (up until recently) Emu's case. The problem, and I see this now thanks to you, is that method never worked for me. I got screwed by MOTU, and it's my own fault for being misled by their demos and being naive, but I'm waiting until I can start saving up to buy another orchestral library, and I'm doing so without the use of warez. If, when the time comes, I pick up Emu's Virtuoso X expansion and it sucks, well that's my own fault too.

It's not always about being able to afford it or not. Sometimes you just don't know and buying software you later find out you can't use when it takes you 8 months to save up a few hundred dollars for it is a really expensive screw-up. I've been there and I can understand where Arke's coming from. It's not always a question of character.

So I agree but I disagree with you at the same time. I understand your point, but I understand Arke's too.

All I know is that it never worked for me, but I can understand if it does work for someone else. Using warez for anything but that purpose is flat-out wrong and inexcusable.

Just my opinion. :shrug:
Mizutaphile.

Post

Ildon wrote:
Hink wrote:I'm sorry but there is no acceptable reason for using any cracked software, if you can't afford it, you wait until you can, you save until you can, you sacrifice until you can...taking the easy way out by using cracked software (even if you buy it later) shows me (and this is my opinion only) that a person has little or no character.
I still don't think it's as black and white as you're making it out to be. I think Arke's idea of "trying before you buy" is a smart way of working around companies who purposely mislead you and don't offer reliable demos of their products
Without being accused of being a warez apologist (I hope), it does seem to me that there are several levels of stealing, just as there are several levels of murder. While all may be wrong, some are considered by society to be more wrong than others. This is what intelligent people do -- they see that an issue is complicated enough to require discernment of intent and motive.

Someone who uses cracked, patched or keygened software for demo purposes because a developer doesn't provide a demo or a demo that makes it possible to actually test software thoroughly, is, in my opinion, not the same as someone who simply doesn't want to pay for software. There is a difference between the two scenarios.

If someone buys software that proves difficult or impossible to install or use because of copy protection issues, or wants to run two copies (desktop and laptop, and not at the same time) and the developer doesn't allow this, then I see no issue with using modified versions. We can agree to disagree on this because there are likely a multitude of views on this practice.

Let me note that the argument that using warez only encourages this activity is simply not seeing reality for what it is. No one is getting wealthy or making a living modifying software. So the motives are outside of profit. They do it because they want to prove they can, and then they want it known that they did it. Such is life.

So, these wars of words that center on modified software are never going to change anyone's mind. Those who use it are not going to be changed into paying customers by the vitriolic threads showing up here on a weekly basis. Worse, even a joke is enough to send some posters into fits of indignity for no good purpose in the long run.

Hey...don't ask, don't tell. :wink:
We escape the trap of our own subjectivity by
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey

Post

Exactly. Thanks for explaining that a little better. :)
Mizutaphile.

Post

Without being accused of being a warez apologist (I hope), it does seem to me that there are several levels of stealing, just as there are several levels of murder.
too bad for the victim there are no different levels of death huh? Absurd, sorry if you call this a fault of mine I'll walk away proud...I will not compromise my integrity for anything...I wonder if you lost your gear like I did if you'd be singing the same song about different levels of stealing...I'll tell you where I will compromise, I will except the trying it out idea as long as the person doing it believes that enough themselves they in writing inform the comapny that's what they did...but to honest when someone says I bought it later... :roll: I don't buy it any more then they did....call me the warez police, say I'm over reacting, I really don't care...if some faults me for being too honest, well I can live with that just fine, thank you very much...:D
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

Post

btw, may I just remind everyone, in no way did I take rbet to be doing anything more then making a joke...;)
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

Post Reply

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”