KVR Audio

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:04 pm

IIRC, MME has very poor performance compared to ASIO or WDM/KS.

OMGLOL -- alphabet soup, anyone?

kp · Post by kp » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:22 pm

Ignoring the sarcasm (yes, it is acronym city :-)), you're right: MME goes through the Windows Audio KMixer which adds 30ms latency (for KMixer to support SRC...and probably BBC, CIA and KGB). But I don't think it's inherently less efficient at the same latency as ASIO or WDM/KS; you just can't go as low as MME (I'm sure there's a bassist joke in there now).

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:40 pm

kp wrote:
Jason Brian Merrill wrote:
kp wrote:Not to mention I think we're still waiting for his definition of "integrated VST" support...
how about

"not what sonar has"

Ah - proof by definition. Can't argue with logic like that.

kvr asks, I deliver.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:50 pm

That's some mighty handsome integrated VST support growing above your eyes, Jason. :-D

By your "definition" eyebrows are integrated VST support, as are 1957 Chevrolets, the scent of peppermint leaves, Las Vegas-style one armed bandits, atomic test ban treaties, and those little pieces of plastic or metal that you find in a pocket but can't remember where they came from.

A (marginally) better definition might be "a feature that looks great in bullet charts and gratifies those who own software that claims to have it, but which doesn't really make a significant difference in workflow."

kp · Post by kp » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:58 pm

SONAR doesn't have warts!

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:04 pm

hmm.. well i dont really mind warts...

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:06 pm

Some anti-Cakewalk folks seem to think it does. :-D

I can't quite recall the quotation, but the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has a passage which goes something like: "Life may be defined as that which one would lose if one fell out of the ear of an enormous statue of oneself miles above the planetary surface." It goes on to explain that this definition is of limited use as it also applies to one's eyeglasses. (Eyebrows, being in normal use non-detachable, would be lost at impact if at all.)

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:08 pm

Meffy wrote:That's some mighty handsome integrated VST support growing above your eyes, Jason.

By your "definition" eyebrows are integrated VST support, as are 1957 Chevrolets, the scent of peppermint leaves, Las Vegas-style one armed bandits, atomic test ban treaties, and those little pieces of plastic or metal that you find in a pocket but can't remember where they came from.

A (marginally) better definition might be "a feature that looks great in bullet charts and gratifies those who own software that claims to have it, but which doesn't really make a significant difference in workflow."

you know, i wasnt really making that big of a deal out of it... I just thought the VST "integration" was a bit annoying, and yes, it is a marketing claim, that sonar uses, so you are right about that.

I just dont like certain things about sonar, shoot me

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:10 pm

Meffy wrote:Some anti-Cakewalk folks seem to think it does.

if anyone mistakes me for "anti-cakewalk" they are missing the point. see, I actually LIKE sonar, for the last bloody time, i just have some annoyances with it

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:13 pm

*shrug* I pay little or no attention to marketing claims, and can't get worked up over them. YMMV.

The comment about anti-Cakewalk and warts was a general one, not directed at anyone in particular. Me, I'm very pro-Cakewalk but in no way anti-Cubase.

Jason Brian Merrill · Post by **Jason Brian Merrill** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:31 pm

yeah, I look at features and usually get interested, but when you actually USE a product, it shows how it actually performs. In this sense, I, personally cannot stand cubase's workflow. So, As I stated earlier in the thread, cakewalk wins this one (IMO) ---

I thought the comment may have been general, but I was just making sure, because ppl seem to take my comments way too personally, that I clarified my stance. hehe.

here is a great feature of sonar:

NEW—Integrated inline audio and MIDI editing, arranging, and mixing all in one view

gotta love that.

and this:

NEW—Object-oriented clip-based effects and editing including per-clip effects bin, clip-based effect automation, and more

but of course

Cakewalk VST Adapter converts VST effects to DirectX format and VST instruments to DXi format.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:35 pm

Soon as the envelope bug is fixed I'll be happy as a skunk in Sonar. (I already have clover enough.) And Ron's said it will be fixed, which is plenty good enough fer me. :-) Until then I'll make do.

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:58 pm

Meffy wrote:Soon as the envelope bug is fixed I'll be happy as a skunk in Sonar. (I already have clover enough.) And Ron's said it will be fixed, which is plenty good enough fer me. Until then I'll make do.

What envelope bug?

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:03 pm

If I understand it correctly (and it's possible I don't; feel free to correct me if I get this wrong) you can have just one automation envelope per track. I've not had a chance to try it yet, mostly been sticking to features I knew from version 3. I'm too timid, yes. *sigh*

Apparently it's a known and well-defined problem, fix in the works (as I learned thanks to Ron Kuper posting here at KVR, yay).

kp · Post by kp » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:11 pm

It only affects automation of VSTs as far as I know (ie. not automation of DX effects or volume/pan envelopes). So the second VST automation envelope on a specific track doesn't always work (I think it works, but always jumps instead of changing by the selected curve).

sonar5pe or cubase sx3 which and why?