KVR Audio

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:26 am

I think this thread has descended into complete uselessness. Ok, he's charging a bit more than the average price, and especially when coming in as a new, unknown developer, that's a bit much, but it's his prerogative. As far as the sound of the synth goes, it does sound really good, there shouldn't be any debate about that.

For those that develop themselves, put your money where your mouth is and make a synth that sounds the same and offer it up for comparison.

I personally couldn't give a f**k if he made it using the source code from a gay porn website, the things sounds good, but it's too expensive for me and that's that. no insults, no claims of this that or the other, just a simple 'it's too expensive'.

And just for the record, i signed up 3 years and 5 days ago, i'm no shill.

liars&ashes · Post by **liars&ashes** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:53 am

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=94

----The plot thickens.
----And I still hope he can somehow prove the only S.E. he used was the skin, but I still can't afford his synth either way, so be it. *shrug*

Jeff

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:08 am

the burden of proof is on the accuser, at least in our free and democratic society.
the fact is, NOT EVEN THE BASIC VOICING MODULES WERE USED IN THIS. not one built in module. There is no difference between this and a synth made with the VST/SDK, except that this developer was smart enough to see the many benefits in using SynthEdit for the GUI, and naive enough to think that anyone here would actually judge a synth by its quality rather than an inaccurately used SynthEdit logo.

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:14 am

Just had a look here. He got the badge nonetheless (although it does state it was used for the GUI only).

Benedict · Post by **Benedict** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:18 am

This thread saddens me.

I haven't heard this synth but it is nicely presented. The site does hype the instrument a bit but that is the nature of marketing.

Maybe it is pricey, so what. That is for BUYERS to assess. It's like we have a kind of VST Gestappo operating in cases like this.

If you judge something not to be for you then simply pass it by. Anything else is just playing nasty and I guess you wouldn't like it if thigs were the other way around. To borrow from Metallica:

You label me
I label you
And I dub thee unforgiven

Nice to see some sensible comments at the end here

mistertoast · Post by **mistertoast** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:22 am

You label me
I label you
And I dub thee unforgiven

Wow. Are those real lyrics? I hope the music rocks hard while they are singing that stuff.

Benedict · Post by **Benedict** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:24 am

It's pretty solid and made plenty of ppl happy. You wouldn't be being unfailrly judgemental again there would you

mistertoast · Post by **mistertoast** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:27 am

Sorry. The "dub thee" made me giggle.

kdlynch · Post by **kdlynch** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:42 am

I'm thinking there's two different issues being discussed here. The pricing, and whether or not it's a SynthEdit Synth.

The second issue, however, is being clouded by semantics. The way both sides are using the words 'SE created'.

In LennarDigital's case, he's using the SE word to mean the modules contained within SE. In that context, everything he's said is correct. The audio side was not created with SE, as he did not use any of SE's built-in modules. When he stated SE does not support xyz, he is correct, as the .builtin. modules do not support xyz. When he says he .did. use SE for the gui, he just means that he did use some of the built-in modules for the gui (although he did custom write some of the gui modules as well). His context of SE merely means the .modules. SE itself provides.

The other side is using the word SE to mean not just the modules, but the entire development environment. So when they are asking if the synth was built in SE, they're not just meaning the builtin SE modules, but was it constructed in the SE environment, regardless of whos modules were used. They are right saying it's a SE Synth, because it was developed with the SE environment (and the SE SDK for the modules). Their context is the SE .environment..

So, end result, the two sides are using different meanings for 'created in/with SE,' and just not seeing the other groups side. It all just boils down to understanding where the other side is coming from.

As far as 'somehow prove the only SE he used was the skin'... well, in the proper context, you're both right. He did only use the built-in SE modules for the gui (LennarDigital is correct), and he did build it within the SE environment, with his own custom audio modules, as well as some custom gui modules (the other side is correct). So, shake hands, and get along.

Life's too short for this.

For all the SE "haters" out there, this is .not. going to sound like your standard 'hey ma, no hands, i made this synth in 17.4 seconds' style SE synth. He's put in custom oscs & filters that no other SE synth can. It's really no different than had he coded it straight into the VST-SDK with C++ in that regards, he just used the SE environment and SDK instead of the VST-SDK. Used like this, the SE Env/SDK acts basically like a VST-SDK 'wrapper'. So, give it a fair listen, and decide for yourself on the synth on it's sound & featureset, .not. on it's assumed SE "soundiness" (which, as I've said, doesn't exist).

On the price side, as with anything, is always a matter of opinion. Those with concerns that he was potentially pricing himself out of the market spoke their concerns clearly and concisely. That part set aside, arguing about price vs quality is a very subjective argument.

To drop to the hardware realm for a moment, some people think the Access Virus is a steal at it's current price. Others think that it's a ripoff, and worth much less than it is. Are you writing Access and telling them to lower their price, since synthXYZ makes a comparible one for cheaper? Are you writing Mackie to say they should charge less because Behringer does so? Why should soft-synths be treated differently.

I hope this clears up the muddiness on this thread somewhat, although this is KVR.

And I think we all could stand to take a step back from time to time, take a deep breath, and take a moment to try to understand where the "other side" is coming from. Again, life's too short. And this post's too long.

Kelly

mistertoast · Post by **mistertoast** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:09 am

Are you writing Access and telling them to lower their price, since synthXYZ makes a comparible one for cheaper? Are you writing Mackie to say they should charge less because Behringer does so? Why should soft-synths be treated differently.

If those companies were here on KvR, do you have any doubt that people would say those things?

It's silly to say there's no difference between hard synths and soft. Of course there is! Are there some people giving away free high-quality hardware synths?

I hope this clears up the muddiness on this thread somewhat, although this is KVR.

Haha. I think you mistook wilful and deliberate misunderstanding for the more typical sort of misunderstanding.

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:23 am

mistertoast wrote:
Haha. I think you mistook wilful and deliberate misunderstanding for the more typical sort of misunderstanding.

well said

kdlynch · Post by **kdlynch** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:26 am

mistertoast wrote:It's silly to say there's no difference between hard synths and soft. Of course there is! Are there some people giving away free high-quality hardware synths?

No, they have a base hardware cost that soft-synths do not incur, so you won't find any 'free' ones. Both hard- and soft-synths however do incur R&D &/or development time costs. And both can choose from that point how much 'profit' to roll in their retail price.

We've all seen freeware softsynths that can stand up proud side-by-side with high-end softsynths. Those developers chose not to recoup any of costs of their time & effort that went into those creations. Others decided they needed/wanted to, or had no choice in the matter (big co's & shareholders, for instance).

And yes, I have to agree if Behringer / Mackie / Access / FillInTheBlankCo were here on KVR, we would see lively pricing discussions here. Funny that that would occur here, yet for instance, I've never emailed Chrysler and told them to lower the price of their vehicles back into the reasonable range. Since when did a pickup become worth more than my house? I just don't buy the truck. I guess that's just the nature of these style forums. >>shrugs<<

mistertoast wrote:Haha. I think you mistook wilful and deliberate misunderstanding for the more typical sort of misunderstanding.

Yeah, probably; but I did not see this as typical or deliberate trolling, which is why you don't see these long posts from me all over KVR, thankfully. My fingers, and all of the readers' eyes, can't take much more of them.

Kelly

mistertoast · Post by **mistertoast** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:29 am

Yeah, it wasn't the usual KvR trolling, I agree. Did seem to me that people were being deliberately nasty, though.

Benedict · Post by **Benedict** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:37 am

I got me a PT Cruiser from Chrysler and yep the price is a bit higher than a cheap Korean but the PT matches my hair and shoes so I had to have it

On the other hand Dwight Yoakham is doing an open air show and tickets for sitting on the grass are $87 + booking fee which is crazy as I have paid $47 for the same venue for a bigger name act

If it fills a need ppl will get it if they have the $$

gunnare · Post by **gunnare** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:37 am

I noticed "Midi learn" and "Clear all" buttons. David Haupt's DH_Controlmeister A and B use those buttons. But it is possible that he has coded a similar module. It is on the volt-side.

And he has got a lot of publicity today:)

All the best
gunnareskinn77

LennarDigital Sylenth1