KVR Audio

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:08 am

[DELETED]

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:14 am

bmanic wrote: You corrected FeelingMachine dude saying that the B example is not louder. Well, in his opinion, it was louder. Thus your answer to him was strange so I assumed you meant peak loudness or some other loudness which is measured on a meter..

well, now it makes sense...but Im used to talk strictly in technical terms which can be verified /=measured/ easily - like average /but not peak!!/loudness here... but aparent or perceived loudnes can not be measured so easily and thus is heavily dependent on peoples subjective opinions which I think makes the discussion very chaotic sometimes

but maybe thats exactly what you like...

but back to previous topic...after some listening I can say that B sample /LX20/ is much better sounding than A /VBC/ and - to my surprise - can be more or less reproduced even on average sw compressor, but it needs a lot of time...unfurtunately A sample needs a lot of further tweaking especially on transients to be acceptable /at least to my older ears/...for me it would be a big surprise if any of new Slate compressors cannot nail it better...

SWAN808 · Post by **SWAN808** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:51 am

bmanic wrote: It's very common to mistake peak loudness, heck even average or RMS loudness as making one source equal in loudness to another.

yes but its not uncommon for human ear perception to be wrong...

but I agree in this case even with RMS it seems B is louder...but its difficult to know who will complain about what when setting these things up...

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:39 am

analoguesamples909 wrote:...but its difficult to know who will complain about what when setting these things up...

I cannot see big problem here...everybody can readjust gain by ear...
...just curious if your comp cannot be adjusted better to nail LX20? Im missing some "impact"...when analog circuit gets overdriven...but its hard to describe by words

Liero · Post by **Liero** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:55 am

Just FYI:

How human beings perceive loudness is ultra-super complex and it is at the moment basically impossible to create any kind of meter that two human beings could use to make any given sound exactly as loud for both.

SWAN808 · Post by **SWAN808** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:43 am

kvaca wrote:
analoguesamples909 wrote:...but its difficult to know who will complain about what when setting these things up...
I cannot see big problem here...everybody can readjust gain by ear...
...just curious if your comp cannot be adjusted better to nail LX20? Im missing some "impact"...when analog circuit gets overdriven...but its hard to describe by words

I used the VBC demo...so anyone can have a crack at matching it...that was my best effort using a mix of the Grey and Mu...its not so far off but I have not heard a software compressor that can make that same clarity of impact...

no no big problem re levels...its a small thing.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:31 pm

Liero wrote:Just FYI:

How human beings perceive loudness is ultra-super complex and it is at the moment basically impossible to create any kind of meter that two human beings could use to make any given sound exactly as loud for both.

Exactly. Which is why everybody doing an AB comparison need to adjust the relative volume themselves!

Cheers!
bManic

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:09 pm

So, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the AA CL series? How do CL1, CLMS-1, and CLMS-1 XL differ? Is it just that MS and MS XL offer mid-side processing? Also, is this a viable alternative to the NI Vintage Compressors?

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:25 pm

analoguesamples909 wrote: I used the VBC demo...so anyone can have a crack at matching it...

yes,anyone who got dongle for demoing...

analoguesamples909 wrote: I have not heard a software compressor that can make that same clarity of impact...

so try this

SWAN808 · Post by **SWAN808** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:26 pm

kvaca wrote: so try this

thats pretty impressive - what is it? DC8C?

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:42 pm

analoguesamples909 wrote:
kvaca wrote: so try this
thats pretty impressive - what is it? DC8C?

not so much impressive, I firmly believe that you can nail this sound /if you know how to tweak your comp/ with every good universal purpose sw compressor on the market including free ones, just avoid modelling crap...

I dont know DC8C...Ive used Melda plugins /MDynamics+freeMLimiter/

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:11 pm

djanthonyw wrote:So, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the AA CL series? How do CL1, CLMS-1, and CLMS-1 XL differ? Is it just that MS and MS XL offer mid-side processing? Also, is this a viable alternative to the NI Vintage Compressors?

The CL series are very interesting compressors. They have a "phase wobble" at the onset of compression.. or that's how it sounds. So the phase is probably warped somehow. This results in a very particular and smooth sound during compression. It can also result in a bit of a "blur" of ringing during heavy compression.. well not exactly a ring but hard to explain.

As a test, run a closed hihat sample, or something else which is very "ticky" and has a large spread of frequencies, then compress the hell out of it with any of the CL compressors and listen to how smooth the attack and resulting transient is.

Cheers!
bManic

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:32 pm

Thanks for the reply bManic, but I don't think that answered any of my questions.

audiosabre · Post by **audiosabre** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:00 pm

djanthonyw wrote:So, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the AA CL series? How do CL1, CLMS-1, and CLMS-1 XL differ? Is it just that MS and MS XL offer mid-side processing? Also, is this a viable alternative to the NI Vintage Compressors?

The CL1 is a stereo, compressor-limiter, with filtering in the the detection circuit. It has peak and RMS limiting.

The CLMS-1 is identical to CL1, except you can control how much mid or side is sent to be compressed.

The CLMS-1 XL is actually 2 compressors, so offers separate compression on mid & side, and separate filtering over M & S detection circuits. You can also switch it to L-R, and compress each side individually.

All of them have input 'drive', wet/dry mix control and external s/c input. The XL has many more mix controls too, it's a beast

I never used the XL personally, but it's there for the advanced tweakers. It's way too complicated for me. Sorry

I like them better than NI. The CL1 is a workhorse, and always delivers. YMMV.

FeelingMachine · Post by **FeelingMachine** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:12 am

kvaca wrote:
analoguesamples909 wrote:...but its difficult to know who will complain about what when setting these things up...
I cannot see big problem here...everybody can readjust gain by ear...

I am sorry kvaca ! What i should of said is B appears louder to me instead of outright stating that it is louder.

I did not mean to appear to criticise at all, i am always greatful to anyone who takes the time and effort to carry out these tests, there are plenty of students around !

I've decided to compare my compressors by using apparent/perceived loudness so not to trick my ear/brain. Once i feel its comfortably matched, ignoring peak/rms i can then hear exactly how the comp is shaping/handling/colouring.
I deal with peaks/rms and loudness later in the process, more often in mastering.
I guess its more a creative approach than technically correct.

As for the examples, yes the clipping would explain why i perceived it as louder.

Thanks kvaca.

Different types of compression, SSL vs 1176 vs 1a2a vs DBX160 ect...