KVR Audio

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:31 am

After installing 7.06, but not hardcore testing (at least not the 32bit version), I can at least say that it runs somewhat "stable" (actually, fresh install of 7.02 in x64 and first initialisation resulted in a crash!), but most of the adressed bugs are still present.

- "Always on Top" bug on MixConsole Fullscreen (Dual Screen) still present
- my BCF in Mackie babyHUI mode is still having sporadic issues
- fonts are still messed up (too small and blurry, or too large)
- ASIO load is still high with third party plugins. A test with the x64 version and a specific test project (created for me only!) revealed even more crazy behavior (already filed to the tech support, await answers to my previous filed ASIO/RME driver issues/reports)
- insert handling is plain downright nonsense, too flimsy. Contact area too small and stretched out. FR for handling like Logic 10 is being ignored
- still no vertical indication line of the channel strips
- still no custom color code for EBU R-128 meter
- still no scale setting for EBU R-128 meter
- still not "vertical stepped lock" for the fader board (MixConsole)
- still no chance to roll back to a former update version

After 1 year of Cubase 7, most of the issues are still present. The price raise of 50 EUR for the upgrades is definitely unadjusted. I filed another complaint through mail.

As of this moment, I can still not recommend the Cubase 7 updates past 7.04 on Windows. But I'll work with it for the time being. See what other issues come up.

If they do not change the insert handling, I have to get used to it eventually. And I finally want to get work done, not do constant beta testing. And knowing the showstoppers, I can evade them. Live with them. It's not like Cubase is totally crippled. You can still work with it regardless.

Next expected maintenance update - December 2013? Or paid by then?
We don't know - Steinberg won't tell.

no_barcode · Post by **no_barcode** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:08 am

**Edit: It's quite a bit better if I adjust the default power mode to allow for more than 5% minimum processor usage. Apparently ASIO likes to have the processor always 100% ready. :oops:

Compyfox wrote:- ASIO load is still high with third party plugins. A test with the x64 version and a specific test project (created for me only!) revealed even more crazy behavior (already filed to the tech support, await answers to my previous filed ASIO/RME driver issues/reports)

I would agree that ASIO performance on a PC is pretty terrible.

I just installed Cubase 7.06 with HALion 5 and am running a Steinberg UR22. I don't need any special projects to see and hear just how bad it is.

Not saying the application isn't usable, but the performance is probably 25% better on my older iMac (i5; 16GB RAM; 500GB HDD) vs. my brand new Dell XPS 8700 (i7; 24GB RAM; 256GB SSD; 2TB HDD) On my PC almost every HALion patch with a longer release will cause ASIO overload when playing multiple notes quickly, but not so on the older Mac.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:14 am

I tried Cubase Elements 7.06 (not the same i know but maybe someone is interested) on different machine, not in the studio but - i can get i think equal if not better performance with it when compared to Ableton or Reaper or FL Studio. I have RME drivers. It seems like everything run smooth and superb. Call me crazy but i think i can get even more plugin count. No crashes, no weird performance etc.etc. Win 8 64 bit.

May i add offtopic rant. I like new strip plugins but that new mixer need some work..damn..

kiezum · Post by **kiezum** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:35 pm

kmonkey wrote:I have RME drivers. It seems like everything run smooth and superb. Call me crazy but i think i can get even more plugin count. No crashes, no weird performance etc.etc.

Cubase 7 works great. I have had M-Audio audio interfaces for years, but I recently switched to RME. It runs so smooth!

Steinberg changed a few thing I have to get used to. Like the dots on the insert and send slots. The same with the mixconsole. I can imagine that people return to Cubase 6.5, because Cubase 7 hasn't any new features that are essential.

SODDI · Post by **SODDI** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:42 pm

I've been using Cubase since the Atari days - Cubase audio since 2000.

I've never had so many problems. And just to re-iterate, Cubase 5.5.3 on the same machine still runs flawlessly. Low ASIO load, no "lazy initialization", no weird display creepiness.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:17 pm

kiezum wrote:Cubase 7 works great. I have had M-Audio audio interfaces for years, but I recently switched to RME. It runs so smooth!

Can you maybe elaborate which RME system you use and on what OS you are?
Because the issues I've seen were on HDSPe with most current drivers, and also MADI.

kiezum wrote:because Cubase 7 hasn't any new features that are essential.

Not quite right actually.
Certain things are new and essential, like improvements in the VariAudio system, the new chord track, multitrack comping. Certain aspects of the mix console are indeed nice and actually usable.

It's just that it was ported so bad, a lot of essential stuff by pre C7 days were dropped and it's so full of bugs that it's not even funny.

If all that wouldn't be the case, Cubase 7 would actually rock! It's just that we were given a half cooked new tool, that still needs a bit longer in the oven. And I think it won't be perfect by C8, but mostly done.

Which is kind of sad actually. Because instead of working faster and more carefree, you have to jump hoops to get the same things done as you could with earlier Cubase versions.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:03 am

Compyfox wrote:
Can you maybe elaborate which RME system you use and on what OS you are?
Because the issues I've seen were on HDSPe with most current drivers, and also MADI.

Win 7 64 bit, HDSPe MADI FX

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:22 pm

File an extensive bugreport through the support plase!
Again, mention my name, and adress that it's already forwarded to the devs.

Because you count to those RME users, that experience exactly the thing I described over and over.

If you're experimental, and can pull that off, try to get a driver that's like 1 to 1,5 years old. In my case (HDSPe Digiface), I would have needed to go from v3.36 down to 3.0x or 3.14 or so maximum.

According to the dev I was in touch with, this changed the ASIO usage DRASTICALLY (still can't confirm it, since I couldn't roll back drivers). Why that is the case is unknown. Still waiting for feedback on that behalf.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:56 am

Cubase 7.06 behavior with 3rd party plugins
Please right-click/download
ca 71MB, mp4, no audio, 1680x1020px

This is a screen recording of a project I was just working on in C7.06, 32bit. It's utilizing one instance of Kontakt, 2 instances of RealGuitars (Strat and LPC), one instance of Stylus RMX (drumloops), various instances of Slate Digital (VBC and VCC), severeal instances of Ignite Amps (stomps and bass head), Amplitube 3 (head), three instaces Two Notes Torpedo WoS (bass and guitar cabinets), VoS Nasty XTC (Exciter) and IKM's CS Classic Clipper (loudness).

Also present are HOFA's Goniometer, MeldaProduction's MUtility and MBandpass (for the guitars) and IKM ARC in the Control Room.

Please take note of the ASIO Guard. This is the behavior I'm talking about, and it should not(!) happen in either form. I switch from 256 samples to 1024 samples and even 4096 samples, to show how the ASIO guard reacts.

Keep in mind, turning the ASIO Guard off, is the same as turning off the guard for individual plugins. This however has no effect whatsoever!

Steinberg is aware of this, and I will send them a link to this video in a minute as well. To reinforce my last bug reports.

THIS behavior, on my I7 920 (iMac 11.3 equivalent, OC'd to 3,6GHz!) should not happen!!! And it won't improve on a more modern rig. Or better said, I can't shell out 700 quids to get a new engine just to see if the behavior is the same.

This is a worst case scenario!
This makes Cubase 7 pretty much unsable to me while using it in real time.

I can not stress it enough...
If you have similar issues (which a lot of you obviously have), contact the support! No excuses, ask for help! You pay a sh*tload of money for that host, and it's slinging that brown matter back at us.

Just say no!

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:09 am

Hi I am downloading this to take a look at it, but I assume you know asioguard is suppose to help only at low latencies and not suppose to have any effect on higher latencies right...
I dont' remember the magic number but it may just be 128 from memory.. so it is suppose to help 32/64/128 I think.. so changing to latencies above that is not suppose to have an effect on asioguard performance......
downloading the video now.
rsp

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:18 am

You're not getting it.

It's perfoming extremely crappy in either latency. And my main latency is 256 samples. I mainly work in real time, everything above 5-7ms is unacceptable to me. And at these settings, Cubase 7 is unusable compared to former versions.

No matter if I turn off the Guard, or leave it on. It does not matter!
This is all I'm talking about since day 1.

BTW: Had to fix the link.

And please no streaming, this might crash your browser. Right click and Download works.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:20 am

several things..... i didn't really look close enough to verify that at 4096 it is indeed higher than at 1024, but definitely take your word for it... that part is very odd/wrong/not suppose to happen....also at the end, not sure why cubase stop playing... however you should note that whilst cubase is open and running (or any other DAW afaik) the recommended way to change the buffer is via the same cubase window where you are adjusting the asio guard and not the the buffer of the control panel of the audio card.. Whilst I am sure it will be argued that you end up at the same place, I am not sure if this is what is causing the no output at the end of the video.....could you try that and see if it makes a difference.
Good luck with SB and the support, and whilst you may argue that you want lower cpu usage (who doesn't), I don't think you showed anything that is considered buggy in cubase...hopefully I am wrong and SB thinks you are right and make changes, but....

good luck
rsp

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:22 am

Compyfox wrote:You're not getting it.

It's perfoming extremely crappy in either latency. And my main latency is 256 samples. I mainly work in real time, everything above 5-7ms is unacceptable to me. And at these settings, Cubase 7 is unusable compared to former versions.

No matter if I turn off the Guard, or leave it on. It does not matter!
This is all I'm talking about since day 1.

BTW: Had to fix the link.

And please no streaming, this might crash your browser. Right click and Download works.

AsioGuard is not designed to matter at I think above 128 if I remember correctly, and certainly by 1024 it shouldn't have an effect. so that it makes no difference to the asio meter whether it is on or off for the settings you used in the video, it is as designed, not a bug....

if you have the time, if you can open this same project in Cubase 6/6.5 and make a similar video I would really appreciate it.
rsp

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:38 am

This is certainly a bug, because if you look closer, I turn the ASIO guard off, and the behavior is the same.

I raise the buffer to 1024 and the load is unholy low. I raise it even more, and the load is back up again.

Sorry - I don't take it.
I refuse to take it.

It is some weird behavior that should not(!!!) happen. Period!
My rig isn't a damn single core from like 10 years back! It's a friggin iMac 11.3 (i7 870) equivalent!

I'll see what I can do about C6.x. Currently only have 6.0.4 on my rig.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:41 am

Compyfox wrote:This is certainly a bug, because if you look closer, I turn the ASIO guard off, and the behavior is the same........

But you not hearing me..... that's what I am saying... at the buffer rates you use in the video asioguard is not working.... by design.....
So I can assure you, that it may be a feature request to have asio guard operate at these higher frequencies, but it won't be treated as a bug...despite how much you accept it or not......

sorry

yes would appreciate if you can run it in 6.04 (there is a 6.06 btw), hopefully 6.04 can read 7.0 files (I know 6.5 can)
rsp

Cubase 7.06 is out