You happy with Studio One 3?

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nostradamoose wrote:"Windows 7", this could be a big part of your issue, since this is the most reported version from Windows users. When you start falling behind by a couple of generations of technological advancements in operating systems and hardware cohesiveness, you have to be prepared to troubleshoot your decision.
Given the amount of professional studios running Windows 7, smooth as silk, on similarly well-maintained systems... I kind of doubt that point. Even today. (That is, even if we were dealing with something that occurred today. Windows 10 wasn't even out when these issues first started to bother me in earnest.)
nostradamoose wrote:This also could have to do with your management of real time processing. Such as cpu hungry plug-ins and how many you're using. Which is usually solved by bouncing and rendering tracks, limiting the number of reverbs and other heavy processing plug-ins and management of the input and output audio buffer.
This is exactly what it has to do with, yes. In Studio One, there was a need to manage the project much sooner. Respectfully, it sounds as if you think there is something wrong (as in, borderline user error) in working with projects that, by their very nature, tax the system with large amounts of resource intensive plugins, without defaulting to bouncing and similar methods as a remedy. Or at least I get the impression you're repeatedly setting a tone of "there must be something wrong in the way you work."

Almost like following a tech support flowchart even though it has (hopefully) been established I sort of know how to maintain an audio system :D and rule out the obvious stuff.

Quoting myself, though:
Guenon wrote:Also, sensing a drawn-out debate hidden in all this, hah.
In the end, it's just my word against your speculation of there being something wrong in the system or my approach. Kind of pointless, hmm? And in a weird way, the tone sounding like official company support trying to bury a criticism.

It all comes down to: I was able to load large soundtrack templates of Kontakts and Zebras and Divas etc. into something else and just get on with writing a cue, with no dropouts whatsoever, as expected on my workstation. I still can. Studio One completely bottlenecked itself to oblivion on an identical loadout, which didn't even include any Studio One Multis (not to be confused with Kontakt Multis). It did when I last tried it, and I'm guessing it still would. The other DAW included sophisticated anticipative processing and extensive settings for optimizing its performance, Studio One didn't, and maxed out.

I've been messing with music tech since the 90s, so I guess you just have to take my word for it (that I did in fact troubleshoot it appropriately and meticulously and know what I'm doing ;) ). If in doubt, just make sure it works for you. If it works, you're in for a treat, it's a gem of a DAW in many respects. That's it.

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I'm pretty happy with it now - since I removed VST2 support it's a lot more stable on my Mac. What I particularly like about it is it's the only DAW I have that fully supports all major plugin formats on Mac which makes it much easier to access all my plugins and their presets (don't need VST2 since on Mac I don't have any that are just VST2). I also find it the easiest to create whole albums with and publish music with.

Wish it had Tracktion's retrospective record though - that's a killer feature that has saved my music many times.

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Deleted my rant. :x

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Guenon wrote:
nostradamoose wrote: Given the amount of professional studios running Windows 7, smooth as silk, on similarly well-maintained systems... I kind of doubt that point. Even today. (That is, even if we were dealing with something that occurred today. Windows 10 wasn't even out when these issues first started to bother me in earnest.)
Did you take a poll of all professional studios? How many of them actually use Studio One? Most of them are probably still buried in Protools and related hardware.

Studio One version 3 was coded and designed to work with Windows 10. But that doesn't mean you can't make it work on an older O/S architecture. But, there's been big advancements in technology for the O/S, hardware and software, since Studio One v1 and Windows 7 were first released.

New generation CPUs, motherboards and peripherals are designed in conjunction with new the O/S, software, BIOS and drivers to perform and operate differently. Example, How threads, multi-threads, code, drivers are now being designed and optimized. Along with how they are to be enabled/disabled and configured to work cohesively together.

I don't think most users understand how much real time processing is going on under the hood and how to manage it. Especially if they're still stuck on an O/S that was released back in July 22, 2009, almost 8 years ago.

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Studio One 3 came out before Windows 10, and it runs on OS X as well.

This has to be some sort of elaborate troll or something :\

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aMUSEd wrote:I'm pretty happy with it now - since I removed VST2 support it's a lot more stable on my Mac. What I particularly like about it is it's the only DAW I have that fully supports all major plugin formats on Mac which makes it much easier to access all my plugins and their presets (don't need VST2 since on Mac I don't have any that are just VST2). I also find it the easiest to create whole albums with and publish music with.
Are you using VST3 then, or just AU? What differences do you find now? I use only VST in my projects (mainly because of the MIDI out) but I dint disable the AU and things seem Ozk, so I wondered what problems you were having (e.g. if mine could be even further improved).

When deciding which format to stick with, The one draw of AU was the presets that I had saved in the past that could also go back and forth with Logic, but ultimately the MIDI out won (VST).

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Robert Randolph wrote:Studio One 3 came out before Windows 10, and it runs on OS X as well.

This has to be some sort of elaborate troll or something :\
Windows 10, October 1, 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1 ... on_history

Studio One 3, May 20, 2015
http://www.presonus.com/press/press-rel ... udio-one-3

Developers and software companies are usually early beta testers and adopters of an O/S, due to the requirements needed to stay current and ahead of the curve when it comes to compatibility and reliability through extensive testing and code design.

Calling people trolls and bullies does nothing to help solve the issues that some users are having. There are common threads (issues) that can be used to troubleshoot the problem. Distracting people from actually trying to solve the issue does nothing for anyone, except feed their perpetual need to argue.

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I get better performance on Win7 than Win10 with Studio One so I'm not sure OS is the culprit here. If you can, try what I've tried and explained in earlier posts. I'm 99% sure you'll get the same result.

Forgot to mention that I have all C-State and other stuff like that disabled. Also in Windows, power options are set to performance.

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nostradamoose wrote:"Windows 7", this could be a big part of your issue, since this is the most reported version from Windows users. When you start falling behind by a couple of generations of technological advancements in operating systems and hardware cohesiveness, you have to be prepared to troubleshoot your decision.
nostradamoose wrote:Did you take a poll of all professional studios? How many of them actually use Studio One? Most of them are probably still buried in Protools and related hardware.

Studio One version 3 was coded and designed to work with Windows 10. But that doesn't mean you can't make it work on an older O/S architecture. But, there's been big advancements in technology for the O/S, hardware and software, since Studio One v1 and Windows 7 were first released.

New generation CPUs, motherboards and peripherals are designed in conjunction with new the O/S, software, BIOS and drivers to perform and operate differently. Example, How threads, multi-threads, code, drivers are now being designed and optimized. Along with how they are to be enabled/disabled and configured to work cohesively together.

I don't think most users understand how much real time processing is going on under the hood and how to manage it. Especially if they're still stuck on an O/S that was released back in July 22, 2009, almost 8 years ago.
nostradamoose wrote:Windows 10, October 1, 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1 ... on_history

Studio One 3, May 20, 2015
http://www.presonus.com/press/press-rel ... udio-one-3

Developers and software companies are usually early beta testers and adopters of an O/S, due to the requirements needed to stay current and ahead of the curve when it comes to compatibility and reliability through extensive testing and code design.

Calling people trolls and bullies does nothing to help solve the issues that some users are having. There are common threads (issues) that can be used to troubleshoot the problem. Distracting people from actually trying to solve the issue does nothing for anyone, except feed their perpetual need to argue.
Quoted for posterity ;)

To recap:

You imply it's likely that Studio One 3, when launched, ran large projects inefficiently (and directly continued the performance trend of its previous version), because it should have been ran on a brand new Windows 10 system. Yet the operating system was launched in its very first manufacturing version two months later. (All Win 10 builds before July 2015 were pre-release versions, and Presonus made no mention of Win 10 in the list of recommended system specs at launch time.)

If that was true, it would be another point I wouldn't personally be that happy about :). On a well-maintained and carefully built system that runs absolutely everything else flawlessly and according to expectations, if there's a product with consistently underwhelming performance -- and it turns out, this is because it's so finicky it doesn't work on a system on which everything else does, and instead requires an OS still in pre-release at that time, before even major interface manufacturers have officially announced their products are compatible (e.g. RME in Aug 2015, the month after the actual Win 10 manufacturing release) -- I would consider that questionable design strategy.

In such a case, I would actually prefer a somewhat disappointing but honest answer along the lines of "it's because the CPU handling isn't yet as efficient in scenarios like this, we are continuing to look into it."
nostradamoose wrote:Distracting people from actually trying to solve the issue does nothing for anyone, except feed their perpetual need to argue.
I get the feeling it's you who is trying to distract. You aren't "actually trying to solve the issue", you signed in on these forums in order to post in this thread and are trying to explain something away, constantly implying user incompetence and lack of understanding, through increasingly unlikely claims.

Again you reply with "I don't think most users understand how much real time processing is going on under the hood and how to manage it", yet you haven't commented on actual differences in CPU handling / pre-calculation based resource management between DAWs at all, for example. Are you saying Studio One actually would not benefit from better implemented anticipative processing? What about the Multis being calculated on one single core per Multi, was that OS / user dependent?

Improving things like this, and optimally presenting the knowledgeable users configuration settings for them, doesn't make the DAW more capable and doesn't help it in handling large plugin instance counts? Or is it just a case of "most users not understanding how much real time processing is going on" ? :)

Personally, I think it's actually likely Presonus implements multiple anticipative processing / load distribution / render behind the scenes types of enhancements down the road. They are good at what they do, and they currently seem to have tv/game/film production people in their sights, yay.
Last edited by Guenon on Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:37 pm, edited 11 times in total.

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macmuse wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:I'm pretty happy with it now - since I removed VST2 support it's a lot more stable on my Mac. What I particularly like about it is it's the only DAW I have that fully supports all major plugin formats on Mac which makes it much easier to access all my plugins and their presets (don't need VST2 since on Mac I don't have any that are just VST2). I also find it the easiest to create whole albums with and publish music with.
Are you using VST3 then, or just AU? What differences do you find now? I use only VST in my projects (mainly because of the MIDI out) but I dint disable the AU and things seem Ozk, so I wondered what problems you were having (e.g. if mine could be even further improved).

When deciding which format to stick with, The one draw of AU was the presets that I had saved in the past that could also go back and forth with Logic, but ultimately the MIDI out won (VST).
Yeah because S1 supports aupresets better than most other hosts except Logic it's nice to be able to use the presets interchangeably so that was one factor. I use AU and VST3 as some VST3 plugins don't come as AU or visa versa. I stopped using VST2 after finding S1 crashing frequently when I tried to load one onto a track. tbh it's possible that was a bug that has since been fixed but I don't really need them anyway.

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nostradamoose wrote:"Windows 7", this could be a big part of your issue, since this is the most reported version from Windows users. When you start falling behind by a couple of generations of technological advancements in operating systems and hardware cohesiveness, you have to be prepared to troubleshoot your decision.

This also could have to do with your management of real time processing. Such as cpu hungry plug-ins and how many you're using. Which is usually solved by bouncing and rendering tracks, limiting the number of reverbs and other heavy processing plug-ins and management of the input and output audio buffer. Example (Most new users miss this part), lower ms setting while recording, higher ms setting while mixing.

Studio One users also have to remember that their track editing such as, transpose, Melodyne, event effects and other track changes are being processed in real time unless they are bounced.

If you're able to totally max out your system specs and only a few percentage of high performance systems are reporting an issue, it is most likely that it comes down to user usage of Studio One or something not working the same with their setup. Which can be a plethora of issues, such as hardware, software settings, technique, etc.

If most their users are working well within the range of most systems while using highly technical techniques and engineering to achieve the results they demand, it's probably a small case of isolated commonalities that need to be found and fixed.
To speak frankly: this is bullshit. Windows 7 is well established, popular and stable OS. It's actually the most popular Windows OS currently. I haven't heard of one Audio Developer (out of those who offer their products for the Windows platform) not supporting it. On the other hand there are huge threads on various forums that report problems with Windows 10 and Audio.
http://gs.statcounter.com/#desktop-os-w ... 201610-bar

I'm not new to Audio and DAWs, I actually use them for almost 2 decades now. So, calm down and get off the high horse. It's pretty self-explanatory that every system will eventually be over-taxed if many demanding plugins are used simultaneously in realtime. One probably couldn't run 10 instances of Serum for example on any system. You make it sound as if setting buffers, bouncing tracks to audio, setting higher latency during mixing and keeping an eye on the CPU meter were some highly confidential trade secrets - which is actually hilarious and pathetic.

The performance issue were reported by many individual users, who have experienced other DAWs that wouldn't exhibit the same problematic performance behaviour. I think the consensus here is that Studio One 3 is in terms of workflow and general user experience a well-thought product, many users prefer S1 over established players like Cubase, Pro Tools and Logic. The performance issues however are a downside that needs to be addressed, since proper performance is a key issue.

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Everytime someone have mentioned that S1 performs worse than other DAWs on their system there is always someone who claims that the system is wrongly configured , they don't know how complicated DAWs are, they are using S1 on an underpowered computer.
I have come to the conclusion that they who are making these claims cannot think logically, don't know anything about computers, has never compared S1 to another DAW on the same system with small buffer setting, cannot understand that not everyone uses their DAWs the same way that they are or has to be on Presonus payroll.

Just accept that S1 has bad CPU performance compared to other daws when using small buffer settings. Also accept that not everyone but you are computer noobs out there and that you are not the only one in the world who knows how computers should be configured for best DAW performance. I know Its abscary thought but consider that it might be the case before claiming that a user has a badly configured or underpowered system.
If S1 performance is enough for someone does not mean that it is for everyone.

Well, we are spoilt with DAW options today and everyone can probably find one that works for their personal workflow. I have abandoned S1 for another DAW but will maybe give it another try, the day they do something about the CPU performance. DubbleBuffers or something like that.
:)

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nIGhT-SoN wrote:I get better performance on Win7 than Win10 with Studio One so I'm not sure OS is the culprit here.
It also depends on drivers. ASIO performance for me got worse when switching from Windows Vista to Windows 7, and i'm pretty sure ASIO4ALL, which i used back then, is responsible for that. It just didn't work as well on Win 7 than it did on Win Vista. In general though, Windows 8/8.1 and 10 are performing better than Vista or 7, but, again, i'm convinced it's a matter of drivers, if audio hardware can really benefit from that. Maybe it's also an architectural thing inside the OS, no idea.

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@nostradamoose Most people that use Studio One 3, they use it mainly for recording and mixing. At this job you won't notice the cpu problem. But if you do EDM or music that uses a lot of VST instruments then you'll notice it almost right away, depending on what VSTs you use.

@chk071 It might be drivers since I use an old E-MU 0404 USB which has beta drivers for Win7, although they worked without problems on Win10, but I've noticed a performance drop in Studio One since v2.0 or 2.5 I think, when they've removed the memory gauge, that when it started acting like that.

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Guenon wrote:
nostradamoose wrote:"Windows 7", this could be a big part of your issue, since this is the most reported version from Windows users. When you start falling behind by a couple of generations of technological advancements in operating systems and hardware cohesiveness, you have to be prepared to troubleshoot your decision.
nostradamoose wrote:Did you take a poll of all professional studios? How many of them actually use Studio One? Most of them are probably still buried in Protools and related hardware.

Studio One version 3 was coded and designed to work with Windows 10. But that doesn't mean you can't make it work on an older O/S architecture. But, there's been big advancements in technology for the O/S, hardware and software, since Studio One v1 and Windows 7 were first released.

New generation CPUs, motherboards and peripherals are designed in conjunction with new the O/S, software, BIOS and drivers to perform and operate differently. Example, How threads, multi-threads, code, drivers are now being designed and optimized. Along with how they are to be enabled/disabled and configured to work cohesively together.

I don't think most users understand how much real time processing is going on under the hood and how to manage it. Especially if they're still stuck on an O/S that was released back in July 22, 2009, almost 8 years ago.
nostradamoose wrote:Windows 10, October 1, 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1 ... on_history

Studio One 3, May 20, 2015
http://www.presonus.com/press/press-rel ... udio-one-3

Developers and software companies are usually early beta testers and adopters of an O/S, due to the requirements needed to stay current and ahead of the curve when it comes to compatibility and reliability through extensive testing and code design.

Calling people trolls and bullies does nothing to help solve the issues that some users are having. There are common threads (issues) that can be used to troubleshoot the problem. Distracting people from actually trying to solve the issue does nothing for anyone, except feed their perpetual need to argue.
Quoted for posterity ;)

To recap:

You imply it's likely that Studio One 3, when launched, ran large projects inefficiently (and directly continued the performance trend of its previous version), because it should have been ran on a brand new Windows 10 system. Yet the operating system was launched in its very first manufacturing version two months later. (All Win 10 builds before July 2015 were pre-release versions, and Presonus made no mention of Win 10 in the list of recommended system specs at launch time.)

If that was true, it would be another point I wouldn't personally be that happy about :). On a well-maintained and carefully built system that runs absolutely everything else flawlessly and according to expectations, if there's a product with consistently underwhelming performance -- and it turns out, this is because it's so finicky it doesn't work on a system on which everything else does, and instead requires an OS still in pre-release at that time, before even major interface manufacturers have officially announced their products are compatible (e.g. RME in Aug 2015, the month after the actual Win 10 manufacturing release) -- I would consider that questionable design strategy.

In such a case, I would actually prefer a somewhat disappointing but honest answer along the lines of "it's because the CPU handling isn't yet as efficient in scenarios like this, we are continuing to look into it."
nostradamoose wrote:Distracting people from actually trying to solve the issue does nothing for anyone, except feed their perpetual need to argue.
I get the feeling it's you who is trying to distract. You aren't "actually trying to solve the issue", you signed in on these forums in order to post in this thread and are trying to explain something away, constantly implying user incompetence and lack of understanding, through increasingly unlikely claims.

Again you reply with "I don't think most users understand how much real time processing is going on under the hood and how to manage it", yet you haven't commented on actual differences in CPU handling / pre-calculation based resource management between DAWs at all, for example. Are you saying Studio One actually would not benefit from better implemented anticipative processing? What about the Multis being calculated on one single core per Multi, was that OS / user dependent?

Improving things like this, and optimally presenting the knowledgeable users configuration settings for them, doesn't make the DAW more capable and doesn't help it in handling large plugin instance counts? Or is it just a case of "most users not understanding how much real time processing is going on" ? :)

Personally, I think it's actually likely Presonus implements multiple anticipative processing / load distribution / render behind the scenes types of enhancements down the road. They are good at what they do, and they currently seem to have tv/game/film production people in their sights, yay.
Unfortunately I don't have time to read your long winded opinion, let's just agree to disagree.

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