The big "I just want to let everybody know I hate iLok because reasons!"-Topic

[Numanoid]

The retail value of the plugins on my iLok is far too high for me to be that casual about transporting it anywhere.

But a travelling musician playing live, using for example UVI software, will have to bring that iLOK some way or the other.

Maybe that is when the soft PACE is of best use.

[chk071]

The retail value of the plugins on my iLok is far too high for me to be that casual about transporting it anywhere. I don't just "put it in my pocket" anymore than I put my laptop in my pocket or wads of hundreds in my pocket.

Indeed. And, if you do that with a eLicenser, then i can assure you that it will break. These things break when you just look at them. I now have 3, and i taped all of them, because they all show breakpoints on the casing. Actually, it's quite a joke considering you will most likely have software worth hundreds, maybe thousands of € on them. Every 5 € USB stick i ever had is more solid than a eLicenser.

[ghettosynth]

Ilok is a necessary evil for now, that's all. If you don't like it, don't use it, simple. Plenty of alternatives that don't use ilok.

It is not a necessary evil at all,but it is an evil alright

They want the industry to believe they can rely on their fantastic system, but it's been cracked,so just how great is their software protection ?

This is a red herring. That's between iLok and manufacturers, it's not something that matters directly to consumers. As long as Pace is able to sell their solution to the vendors of software that we're interested in buying, then, assuming that we ourselves are not interested in using cracked versions, our choice is to either accept iLok or not use that software.

These arguments always seem to take this turn and it's always presented as if it's some sort of smoking gun. Yes, there are better ways to deal with this, but it's not most of the alternatives currently in use. In the present, however, protection against theft isn't a point at all between valid customers and the vendors from whom they purchase. We give vendors our money and they give us a license to their software. Whether other people are stealing it is of no direct consequence to our choices. It's not like we're going to say "OMG, the vendor's not protected, we better not buy his software."

What so many of you seem to fail to realize is that for many of us this is just a simple cost and convenience argument. The cost of iLok, for the consumer is far lower than the VIABLE alternatives. Serial numbers are not a viable alternative because most manufacturers do not have faith in their use. Spreading FUD is not going to weigh against our direct experience of having lost C/R software or even simply being hampered by the inconvenience of certain styles of internet based authorization.

I will say it again, I PREFER iLok for the most part given the available choices and the reality of the market. I would rather see an alternative, but that's not going to happen anytime soon so, practically speaking, I will continue to PREFER iLok for the foreseeable future. Consequently, if vendors want MY money, then they will consider iLok as opposed to C/R. Now, whether or not it actually protects their software is not really a factor in that decision.

[JunSev]

everyone give his opinion here, all the opinion are appreciated.

I will put the topic again and I have edited a little bit, but is the same.

[JunSev]

well this is just a question about preferences and personal decision about how all of us would decide for a near future, what would you like and what you would decide.

the difference between both System is clear for everyone I think, of course when you buy a software in almost many cases you have to do it online and there you recive your "keys", but how we would prefer the key is the remarkable difference and what exactly means, so here we go, the difference between both:

Online registration: 
• you're dependent of the company: you might recive some offers and good deals or probably good rebates, you're in hands of them 
• the keys is owned by the company: you cannot unlock "your" things, the keys aren't yours, they are the owner.
• in some way, you don't have product really, because everything is owned by the company, and probably this case is similar to a rent or sort of permission, but you are in their hands.


Offline registration:
• you're completely independent from the company, but you have to respect the agreement to not copy and paste their product.
• the keys are yours, you're the owner and you don't rely on what could happen with the company, since you make the purchase, is in your hands, you can use it whenever you want.
• the product is yours (with respect of their agreement), at this point all that might happen to your software is about your actions, you are not under permissions anymore, this might help you for preserve your software, since you're independent, is yours the same as a vehicle, laptop, smartphone and like that...

nobody get me wrong I'm not biased to influence on your decision, I already know perfectly what I decided, but we have to think about all this and what means.
don't paid attention to trolls, obviously biased people (or never be conducted by suggestions or manipulation of the media in all aspect), since the dictatorship around the history has taught how entires population has been conducted trough that, and have died for calculated lies...
or sort of robots-people that will say everything in order to support his ideology, your decision is yours.

so yeah, what is your personal decision and explain why?

[ghettosynth]

The retail value of the plugins on my iLok is far too high for me to be that casual about transporting it anywhere. I don't just "put it in my pocket" anymore than I put my laptop in my pocket or wads of hundreds in my pocket.

Indeed. And, if you do that with a eLicenser, then i can assure you that it will break. These things break when you just look at them. I now have 3, and i taped all of them, because they all show breakpoints on the casing. Actually, it's quite a joke considering you will most likely have software worth hundreds, maybe thousands of € on them. Every 5 € USB stick i ever had is more solid than a eLicenser.

No disagreement there. The eLicensers are not physically very robust at all. I think that's reflected in their marketshare though. I have software on eLicenser and I have one that is in sad shape. If I were going to take them out live I would take their physical protection pretty seriously.

[jancivil]

how we would prefer the key is the remarkable difference and what exactly means, so here we go, the difference between both:

Online registration: 
• you're dependent of the company: you might recive some offers and good deals or probably good rebates, you're in hands of them 
• the keys is owned by the company: you cannot unlock "your" things, the keys aren't yours, they are the owner.
• in some way, you don't have product really, because everything is owned by the company, and probably this case is similar to a rent or sort of permission, but you are in their hands.

Offline registration:
• you're completely independent from the company, but you have to respect the agreement to not copy and paste their product.
• the keys are yours, you're the owner and you don't rely on what could happen with the company, since you make the purchase, is in your hands, you can use it whenever you want.
• the product is yours (with respect of their agreement), at this point all that might happen to your software is about your actions, you are not under permissions anymore, this might help you for preserve your software, since you're independent, is yours the same as a vehicle, laptop, smartphone and like that...

so yeah, what is your personal decision and explain why?

Ok, if one prefers to have an ideology about such a thing that restricts them to only using things which don't fit that, that's their prerogative, but the situation where 'you're completely independent from the company' is going to be few and far between I think. I need quality and I have not even encountered it free of/unencumbered by developers' need to protect their investment. So there is no decision for me, I use what I feel the need to use for my_music and that's that.

But it demonstrably is not the same key as you buy with your automobile in any case. And I've 'lost' a smartphone only to find that retaining the account with that was going to cost me, prohibitively for me as I don't feel such a big need for the damned thing.

Online registration: 
• you're dependent of the company: you might recive some offers and good deals or probably good rebates, you're in hands of them 
• the keys is owned by the company: you cannot unlock "your" things, the keys aren't yours, they are the owner.
• in some way, you don't have product really, because everything is owned by the company, and probably this case is similar to a rent or sort of permission, but you are in their hands.

It's purchasing a license to use said product. I can actually unlock anything NI currently supports, on any new machine, via the Native Access, it installs and is ready to go. I can unlock every single thing I have from them but not all instantly via NA.
I've had dongles stolen and it sucks that VSL makes me pay half for the license to unlock it, but on the same key Steinberg has replaced the license for free. I'm not going to see VSL quality from any entity that operates with no copy protection. And I'm fairly sure NI, and VSL, and Steinberg will be here long after I'm gone.

The entities that your ideology here supposes amounts to you owning something by them are going to be very small enterprises that wouldn't be competitive if they had stronger enforcement of protection; particularly a mere agreement not to copy; who does that? I actually don't even know.

[pekbro]

I don't blame devs for using it, I do think ilok as a company is capitalizing on the problem and collecting way too much money for the service. Those iloks probably cost them 10 cents a piece. God knows how much profit is involved for them. I suspect it's pretty lucrative.

[JunSev]

how we would prefer the key is the remarkable difference and what exactly means, so here we go, the difference between both:

Online registration: 
• you're dependent of the company: you might recive some offers and good deals or probably good rebates, you're in hands of them 
• the keys is owned by the company: you cannot unlock "your" things, the keys aren't yours, they are the owner.
• in some way, you don't have product really, because everything is owned by the company, and probably this case is similar to a rent or sort of permission, but you are in their hands.

Offline registration:
• you're completely independent from the company, but you have to respect the agreement to not copy and paste their product.
• the keys are yours, you're the owner and you don't rely on what could happen with the company, since you make the purchase, is in your hands, you can use it whenever you want.
• the product is yours (with respect of their agreement), at this point all that might happen to your software is about your actions, you are not under permissions anymore, this might help you for preserve your software, since you're independent, is yours the same as a vehicle, laptop, smartphone and like that...

so yeah, what is your personal decision and explain why?

Ok, if one prefers to have an ideology about such a thing that restricts them to only using things which don't fit that, that's their prerogative, but the situation where 'you're completely independent from the company' is going to be few and far between I think. I need quality and I have not even encountered it free of/unencumbered by developers' need to protect their investment. So there is no decision for me, I use what I feel the need to use for my_music and that's that.

But it demonstrably is not the same key as you buy with your automobile in any case. And I've 'lost' a smartphone only to find that retaining the account with that was going to cost me, prohibitively for me as I don't feel such a big need for the damned thing.

Online registration: 
• you're dependent of the company: you might recive some offers and good deals or probably good rebates, you're in hands of them 
• the keys is owned by the company: you cannot unlock "your" things, the keys aren't yours, they are the owner.
• in some way, you don't have product really, because everything is owned by the company, and probably this case is similar to a rent or sort of permission, but you are in their hands.

It's purchasing a license to use said product. I can actually unlock anything NI currently supports, on any new machine, via the Native Access, it installs and is ready to go. I can unlock every single thing I have from them but not all instantly via NA.
I've had dongles stolen and it sucks that VSL makes me pay half for the license to unlock it, but on the same key Steinberg has replaced the license for free. I'm not going to see VSL quality from any entity that operates with no copy protection. And I'm fairly sure NI, and VSL, and Steinberg will be here long after I'm gone.

The entities that your ideology here supposes amounts to you owning something by them are going to be very small enterprises that wouldn't be competitive if they had stronger enforcement of protection; particularly a mere agreement not to copy; who does that? I actually don't even know.

you are showing good points and is very true that the companies have to protect their products is a obvious thing, I awsow support these procedures when if you don't find your keys you at least can go and recover your stuffs in the company where you go, awsow the services, however the problem is that we are paying and will pay more and more with our dependency.

because contrary to what many people think here, I believe in the effort the developers have done creating new stuffs, the only thing I will be against of is the procedures, I will be against that simply because believe it or not it will be worse if we just decide to not say anything or do anything, you know, just imagine a future where you absurdly have to ask permission to a company just because you wanna use a product you already paid for, your dependency is there...

you don't going to have anything really if you think about, and this is getting more and more common and many people just has decided to accept everything like that, is not ok and should change for real, should change...

[Hink]

just curious, anyone else notice the op has like 113 posts since 2013 and hasn't been back to this thread since they started it? 8 days

[JunSev]

just curious, anyone else notice the op has like 113 posts since 2013 and hasn't been back to this thread since they started it? 8 days

that's pretty ironic and curious, just look how everything is going...

[Hink]

just curious, anyone else notice the op has like 113 posts since 2013 and hasn't been back to this thread since they started it? 8 days

that's pretty ironic and curious, just look how everything is going...

not really, see when I joined here? You know how many times I have seen this? Ilok, mac vs pc, what daw sounds better, digital vs analog, monster cables vs coat hangers, sims vs amps and the list goes on

[JunSev]

just curious, anyone else notice the op has like 113 posts since 2013 and hasn't been back to this thread since they started it? 8 days

that's pretty ironic and curious, just look how everything is going...

not really, see when I joined here? You know how many times I have seen this? Ilok, mac vs pc, what daw sounds better, digital vs analog, monster cables vs coat hangers, sims vs amps and the list goes on

wow, did you created kvr or something?...

[xenophobic]

just curious, anyone else notice the op has like 113 posts since 2013 and hasn't been back to this thread since they started it? 8 days

that's pretty ironic and curious, just look how everything is going...

Why does how many post someone makes matter or how long they take to respond some of us actually work and have lives outside of kvr.

not really, see when I joined here? You know how many times I have seen this? Ilok, mac vs pc, what daw sounds better, digital vs analog, monster cables vs coat hangers, sims vs amps and the list goes on

Who cares when you joined is this place a cult when do we get the delicious cool aid.

I can see why you have so many post you respond with nothing of substance to the conversation
you could have easily avoided this but gotta rack up those post numbers.

[ghettosynth]

just curious, anyone else notice the op has like 113 posts since 2013 and hasn't been back to this thread since they started it? 8 days

For some reason I thought that this was JunSev's post the way he's lecturing everyone on the topic.