KVR Audio

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:58 pm

linear

A piano may be more linear, but is still messy. Learn to play a piece in one key, now play it a semitone higher. Oops.

In that sense a single guitar string is linear: if you play something using only one string (and no open strings) you can easily transpose it. In fact, absent open strings you can transpose pieces using multiple strings.

(A guitar sound is very nonlinear, btw, since the shorter the string, the more important become the distortions introduced by the attachments of the string.)

I've heard of some keyboard designs with 31 notes per octave where transposing is indeed just moving your hands a couple of keys up or down the keyboard.

V.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:00 pm

EJo wrote: You're absolutely right, you can't make good recordings/music if you can't play an instrument properly. I know ever so many examples of that. And don't just think you can learn to play in 2 years either. It takes 6-10 years to get anywhere at all, and then you practice several hours every day. If you don't wanna do this, don't even try to make music. NO ONE is gonna wanna listen to it.

It's a good job nobody told Brian Eno.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:04 pm

...or the pistols.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:05 pm

...or Andrew Weatherall.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:06 pm

...or Yngwie Malmsteen.

No hold on. He can play. He just can't make music.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:12 pm

TennesseeVic wrote:
linear
A piano may be more linear, but is still messy. Learn to play a piece in one key, now play it a semitone higher. Oops.

In that sense a single guitar string is linear: if you play something using only one string (and no open strings) you can easily transpose it. In fact, absent open strings you can transpose pieces using multiple strings.

(A guitar sound is very nonlinear, btw, since the shorter the string, the more important become the distortions introduced by the attachments of the string.)

I've heard of some keyboard designs with 31 notes per octave where transposing is indeed just moving your hands a couple of keys up or down the keyboard.

V.

There were 1/4 step pianos, though I think it was around the 1400s it was popular. I have seen pictures of it, it curves around the player some.

Mind you I'm a guitar player, and have been since Nixon was in his first term. But I do write quite a bit using my keys and synths. Because I think in intervals as opposed to notes either is easy enough for me to improvise on but the piano is easier for me to see it and not think about it ahead of time.

On guitar I use a few different tunings my favorite is EAEACE which is an open Am. If I change tunings the intervals between strings change and I have to think about it (at first).

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:17 pm

EJo wrote:
You're absolutely right, you can't make good recordings/music if you can't play an instrument properly. I know ever so many examples of that. And don't just think you can learn to play in 2 years either. It takes 6-10 years to get anywhere at all, and then you practice several hours every day. If you don't wanna do this, don't even try to make music. NO ONE is gonna wanna listen to it.

I've been playing for 20 years, but I haven't actually practiced for about 19, so I suppose I'd best give up now. When are you supposed to write these things called songs/tunes then? In the breaks between incessant bouts of widdling?

Emerald Tablet · Post by **Emerald Tablet** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:20 pm

Emerald Tablet wrote:
Equilibrium wrote:I was thinking about this... Can you really make decent music without being an instrumentalist? If you make music, isn't a fundamental aspect to have practical and theoretical knowledge?

With someone like Squarepusher it is really obvious that he plays instruments. There are loads of undergrounds acts though that just don't seem to even be able to make a melody. I think that I can tell with a producer whether they play drums or not, there just is a difference. I feel that's why people like Chemical Brothers, Fat Boy Slim, DJ Shadow, Dj Premier and Squarepusher are in another league as such, they understand drums and therefore make better beats than Roni Size, Goldie and others...

I dunno I just see if anyone is feeling me on this one? I'm not saying that people should be Miles Davis or Steve Gadd but some basic instrumental skills aren't that hard to aquire and to my mind are essential.
i believe its a blessing and a curse in one
for me personaly - electronic music isn`t there to imitate a band. its there to add something that wasn`t possible with for instance regular drums - so well - in my opinion roni zise makes better beats because you cant make em on regular drums.

i mean whats the f**king use of imitating a band if you can be in a band. the artists you mentioned (especially fat boy slim) are like mac donalds - instant food makers - its all served as obvious as one could think up.

by the way - my gf plays the clarinet - her little brother plays pc - i think we will hear much from this young fellow in the future ! she is able to play wonderfull - but like she said - able to play what other tell her to ! he however is a much more creative hyper mind and he will never be able to play an instrument because he lacks patience - he needs impulses - thousands of them . one instrument is simply to dull for the litle guy

i laughed out loud while listening to what dt had to say about it - and i read my own post and read all the others -

i believe being able to play an instrument can be a deficiency when you play pc

progfusion74 · Post by **progfusion74** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:26 pm

It also depends on how you look at a computer. I look at a computer, or rather software synthesizers hosted in a computer just as rack-mount synth modules. The difference is that I have a lot more tweakability w.r.t. automation, and a wider variety than I could have ever put on a rack.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:27 pm

nuffink wrote:...or Yngwie Malmsteen.

No hold on. He can play. He just can't make music.

I saw him in Steeler, Alcatraz and as himself...same show basically, different songs but they sounded the same. But it was cool when he threw his guitar way up in the air, cause afterall you're not a real guitar player until you can throw a guitar. I once broke a whammy bar and stuck in the wall across the small hall we were playing (I was so pissed, I really whipped it)....does that count?

kaden · Post by **kaden** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:38 pm

I think the point everyone is missing when citing "Famous Musicians Who Proudly Proclaim Their Lack of Musical Education' is that you ain't them.

Until you're absolutely certain you have the same level of innate musicality and strength of artistic vision, or can hire a *really* good PR firm, it might be better to hedge your bets a bit.

K

farlukar · Post by **farlukar** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:47 pm

vurt wrote:
EJo wrote: It takes 6-10 years to get anywhere at all, and then you practice several hours every day. If you don't wanna do this, don't even try to make music. NO ONE is gonna wanna listen to it.
[cough]bollocks[/cough]

donkey tugger wrote:I've been playing for 20 years, but I haven't actually practiced for about 19, so I suppose I'd best give up now. When are you supposed to write these things called songs/tunes then? In the breaks between incessant bouts of widdling?

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:02 pm

nuffink wrote: It's a good job nobody told Brian Eno.

Didn't Eno actually play something in early Roxy Music? The violin on Virginia Plain? Ok, that's a bad example.

V.

progfusion74 · Post by **progfusion74** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:03 pm

Eno played keyboards

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:06 pm

hink wrote:There were 1/4 step pianos, though I think it was around the 1400s it was popular.

Doesn't sound familiar. Link?

I was thinking of this thing:

V.

Do you have to play an instrument?