Early Genesis suggestions?

[kenfreebury]

Interesting to view the usual Gabriel is King and Collins is crap. Reality is that Gabriel could never sing and hid behind his increasingly ridiculous costumes to cover up his vocal deficiencies. Technically Collins is a far superior vocalist and I can listen to early Genesis stuff, but only when sung by Collins. Even the Lamb is worth listening to when Collins sings it.

I have recently viewed a copy of early Genesis material on DVD and Gabriel screeching I Know What I Like had me and the wife in stitches!

Ah well, to each their own.....

[SJ_Digriz]

Interesting to view the usual Gabriel is King and Collins is crap. Reality is that Gabriel could never sing and hid behind his increasingly ridiculous costumes to cover up his vocal deficiencies. Technically Collins is a far superior vocalist and I can listen to early Genesis stuff, but only when sung by Collins. Even the Lamb is worth listening to when Collins sings it.

I have recently viewed a copy of early Genesis material on DVD and Gabriel screeching I Know What I Like had me and the wife in stitches!

Ah well, to each their own.....

I'm not sure that most people would disagree that Phil has the better singing voice. I believe the comparison is about the musical content. The stuff Phil does is minimalistic pop twaddle while Peter explores and pushes musical styles and envelopes even with his limited singing skills. I can count 20 or more songs by PG that I can listen to time and time again and feel the emotional intensity every time. I can do the same with PC maybe 3 or 4 songs at the most.

Again, thats just an opinion for whatever its worth. I went to a PC concert with my wife because she really wanted to see him. It was so boring I couldn't stand it. The sound was good, the singing good, but the songs ...bleh BORING!! We went approx a year later to see the Us show by PG. Uhmm...no comparison man it was spectacular on so many levels.

[SJ_Digriz]

My previous post was about solo careers btw. There was lots of great Genesis even after PG and Steve Hackett departed. Duke is awesome 90% of the time. After Duke were sad albums with specific great songs. Even a much much later "We Can't Dance" has songs like "Driving the last Spike" and "Fading Lights" both of which are fantastic imo and have the echo of the earliest Genesis.

Foxtrot and Selling England are my 2 favorite early albums. Although Lamb has awesome moments it is a terrible production job and hard to listen to from end to end for me. I'm not a person who likes to pop on one song by someone, then one song by someone else. I like the long flowing albums that can keep you going along for a good ride.

[kenfreebury]

Interesting to view the usual Gabriel is King and Collins is crap. Reality is that Gabriel could never sing and hid behind his increasingly ridiculous costumes to cover up his vocal deficiencies. Technically Collins is a far superior vocalist and I can listen to early Genesis stuff, but only when sung by Collins. Even the Lamb is worth listening to when Collins sings it.

I have recently viewed a copy of early Genesis material on DVD and Gabriel screeching I Know What I Like had me and the wife in stitches!

Ah well, to each their own.....

I'm not sure that most people would disagree that Phil has the better singing voice. I believe the comparison is about the musical content. The stuff Phil does is minimalistic pop twaddle while Peter explores and pushes musical styles and envelopes even with his limited singing skills. I can count 20 or more songs by PG that I can listen to time and time again and feel the emotional intensity every time. I can do the same with PC maybe 3 or 4 songs at the most.

Again, thats just an opinion for whatever its worth. I went to a PC concert with my wife because she really wanted to see him. It was so boring I couldn't stand it. The sound was good, the singing good, but the songs ...bleh BORING!! We went approx a year later to see the Us show by PG. Uhmm...no comparison man it was spectacular on so many levels.

Now you've twisted my post by comparing Gabriel to Collins solo. I refer to Genesis music

For example, Firth Of Fifth is one of my all time Genesis favourites. But only when sung by Collins. And take Afterglow......an absolute masterpiece. But how could Gabriel have performed that? There's no way Gabriel would have got anywhere near Collins' performance.......especially live.

Whether you like one era of Genesis or another is purely opinion. Collins is a better singer and that is a fact

Ken.

[SJ_Digriz]

Now you've twisted my post by comparing Gabriel to Collins solo. I refer to Genesis music

For example, Firth Of Fifth is one of my all time Genesis favourites. But only when sung by Collins. And take Afterglow......an absolute masterpiece. But how could Gabriel have performed that? There's no way Gabriel would have got anywhere near Collins' performance.......especially live.

Whether you like one era of Genesis or another is purely opinion. Collins is a better singer and that is a fact

Yep, noted in the post just above yours. I agree, PC is a better singer on certain types of songs. I don't however think thats true acrossed the board. But, along with many people think that there are ton of good toons post PG and that PC does a lot of the early songs better.

Afterglow is a killer song btw.

[duncanparsons]

Just found this thread - I was in Cornwall for 2 weeks while it all seemed to be happening.. So:

I have loved G ever since I first heard them - I have recollections of some of the melodies from being a 4/5 yr old, but started listening properly in my teens. I also started playing drums around the same time, and PC, along with Bill Bruford, basically taught me how to play (I did wind up having a lesson with Bruford in 1993!). Probably must absolute fave G recording is Cinema Show as it appears on Seconds Out (apart from that rather bizarre ending..). Any version of that track never fails to bring tears to my eyes tho', whether live or no.

MRT mentioned PC's playing in BrandX, I would point everyone who hasn't heard BrandX to go see! I would say it is PCs most innovative playing in his whole career, especially the first cut 'Unorthodox Behaviour' [Also try: Moroccan Roll, Product; others feature other drummers too. Basically there isn't a bad BrandX disc]

Klemperer said that most of LLDoB is Gabriel's work.. well, this is a moot point. Pete spent most of the time the band were in the studio doing the Lamb driving between his home where his wife was heavily pregnant, and the studio - a round trip of some 400 miles. The band would get the music together, based on what PG has talked about, then PG would turn up and try to fit the finalized lyric over the top. Most of the music is actually Banks/Rutherford - the only two to be in the band all the way through.. which says something I feel (probably that they never quite knew when to stop!!! )

kuniklo spoke of tracking down 2nd tier bands.. Man I used to do that too! I used to have some 750+ vinyl albums, I had stuff by Bo Hanson, Wally, Triumvirat, Gryphon, Stackridge, TONTO, Arzachel, o the list went on. Nearly on originals, since they never went to a second pressing! My collection in many ways barely scratched the surface, but I loved those bands. Collecting was like - 'O he played in such and such a band, I'll buy this', and then I would get all the albums by that band. Some of my real favourites were Family, Joe Vitale, Stackridge, UK..

olepro has been the only one to make a passing ref to Ant Phillips solo work. This guy is superb. He has done a lot of TV work (his bread and butter living), as well as more 'Private Parts and Pieces' discs than I care to mention, and a real diversity of other stuff. My favourites of his are (generally) the ones with the covers by Peter Cross (each cover related back to others!) - 'Wise After the Event', 'Private Parts and Pieces', 'Sides'. All three of these I would argue are must haves for a 70's genesis freak. [I used to be in written contact with Ant on and off for about 8 years, I kept trying to persuade him that he needed a drummer, and I was the man.. He was very good natured about it, but still said no.]
[Several times!]

A while back I heard some parts of the Definitive Edition ReMasters.. I must say I wasn't happy with what they did! Part of the charm of the stuff in the early 70's is the way that reverb was treated as an effect, not a baseline. Listen to Fragile/Close to the Edge by Yes, Any Gentle Giant of the period, You'll find reverb is only really applied when it is needed, and often only very sparingly. I guess it was probably Dark Side of the Moon that started to sway things.. But the DefEdReMaster has put rather too much verb on the very exposed opening line of 'Dancing with the Moonlit Knight', and ruined the whole thing. O well, no accounting for taste!

All this talk of TMB.. I saw a band ReGenesis in 1996. They played a terrific concert (with Cinema Show, and my wet eyes!). Find out about them here. They played stuff like '..Moonlit Knight', complete Suppers Ready (including the story PG used to tell before hand), Firth of Fifth, etc. A really great knight out!

I had that 4CD box set they released in 1997, the one with the full Lamb on, and outtakes, rarities, etc. Stuff like Twilight Alehouse, and Happy the Man were on it, and you can hear why they never made it onto the LPs! I also has the 'Spot the Pidgeon' on 7" EP, so am in good company! I also had many bootleg tapes, one of my fav was a recording from 1978, when Daryl had just joined. They did 'Dancing..' brilliantly, and most of 'ATTW3', and a peculiar version of InTheCage, in which the sped up for no good reason about half way thru! {it wasn't a poor duplication, since they remained in pitch, and there was no sound of tape de/acceleration}.

However, all of my record, tape and CD collection are now in charity shops around Watford, or sold on. I have 2 LPs and a couple of Ant Phillips CDs now. Such is life.

Great thread tho'. Thanks for everyones stories and opinions!

DSP

[kenfreebury]

Now you've twisted my post by comparing Gabriel to Collins solo. I refer to Genesis music

For example, Firth Of Fifth is one of my all time Genesis favourites. But only when sung by Collins. And take Afterglow......an absolute masterpiece. But how could Gabriel have performed that? There's no way Gabriel would have got anywhere near Collins' performance.......especially live.

Whether you like one era of Genesis or another is purely opinion. Collins is a better singer and that is a fact

Yep, noted in the post just above yours. I agree, PC is a better singer on certain types of songs. I don't however think thats true acrossed the board. But, along with many people think that there are ton of good toons post PG and that PC does a lot of the early songs better.

Afterglow is a killer song btw.

On the music side I accept Genesis became more mainstream after Gabriel and then Hackett left. But that to me means they were easier to listen to. I have only recently started to appreciate Supper's Ready (apart from Willow Farm which sounds like a Chas and Dave tune). But I loved Many Too Many and later Mama after just one listening.

And just to prove I am not a Gabrielophobe...... Sledgehammer would be one of my Desert Island discs


Ken.

[TVD]

Quick question for all you Genesis/prog freaks out there (only a handful I know. ).

I've been into Peter Gabriel for quite a while now. What I'm curious about now is early Genesis, which I've heard so much about but have never heard. Bear in mind that I was born in 1978 so the only Genesis I'm familar with has Phil Collins running the show (which to me has always been a godawful experience).

What's some good Gabriel-era Genesis to check out? Just as importantly, where should I stop?

-s

Don't hate the player (Phil Collins), hate the game (Yamaha DX7).

But seriously, try the first volume of Genesis's box set. That alone covers the band's Peter Gabriel era.

[TVD]

Interesting to view the usual Gabriel is King and Collins is crap. Reality is that Gabriel could never sing and hid behind his increasingly ridiculous costumes to cover up his vocal deficiencies. Technically Collins is a far superior vocalist and I can listen to early Genesis stuff, but only when sung by Collins. Even the Lamb is worth listening to when Collins sings it.

I have recently viewed a copy of early Genesis material on DVD and Gabriel screeching I Know What I Like had me and the wife in stitches!

Ah well, to each their own.....

You're right Ken. In due time, Phil was (and still is) better band leader/lead vocalist/keyboardist than Peter. And it's time of the Phil Collins bashing to stop already

[progfusion74]

Interesting to view the usual Gabriel is King and Collins is crap. Reality is that Gabriel could never sing and hid behind his increasingly ridiculous costumes to cover up his vocal deficiencies. Technically Collins is a far superior vocalist and I can listen to early Genesis stuff, but only when sung by Collins. Even the Lamb is worth listening to when Collins sings it.

I have recently viewed a copy of early Genesis material on DVD and Gabriel screeching I Know What I Like had me and the wife in stitches!

Ah well, to each their own.....

You're right Ken. In due time, Phil was (and still is) better band leader/lead vocalist/keyboardist than Peter. And it's time of the Phil Collins bashing to stop already

This is definitely a "to each his own" kind of situation. I don't like any of Phil Collin's solo stuff, never did, from before I knew a band called Genesis ever existed, or a musician named Peter Gabriel did either. Now as a drummer, e.g. BrandX, I LOVE Phil. He just doesn't do it for me, while Peter as a songwriter, singer, composer (My intro to Gabriel was "Passion") makes him one of my all time favorites as a musician.

[TVD]

Interesting to view the usual Gabriel is King and Collins is crap. Reality is that Gabriel could never sing and hid behind his increasingly ridiculous costumes to cover up his vocal deficiencies. Technically Collins is a far superior vocalist and I can listen to early Genesis stuff, but only when sung by Collins. Even the Lamb is worth listening to when Collins sings it.

I have recently viewed a copy of early Genesis material on DVD and Gabriel screeching I Know What I Like had me and the wife in stitches!

Ah well, to each their own.....

You're right Ken. In due time, Phil was (and still is) better band leader/lead vocalist/keyboardist than Peter. And it's time of the Phil Collins bashing to stop already

This is definitely a "to each his own" kind of situation. I don't like any of Phil Collin's solo stuff, never did, from before I knew a band called Genesis ever existed, or a musician named Peter Gabriel did either. Now as a drummer, e.g. BrandX, I LOVE Phil. He just doesn't do it for me, while Peter as a songwriter, singer, composer (My intro to Gabriel was "Passion") makes him one of my all time favorites as a musician.

"To each his own" indeed. But I was in a good mood to crack some jokes on some people who sometimes refuse to get Phil Collins some credit for having an impact in the 80's (and by the way, Phil also produced some songs for Peter Gabriel as well. So what does that tell you about impact???).

To be fair, the drawbacks are there in the 80's as well. Think about half of Phil's greatest solo hits that I still like to listen to:

More drum machines (808, linn, dmx, etc.) than live drums.
Horn section leftovers from Earth Wind & Fire.
Yamaha DX7 all over the place.
Trying real (or too) hard to look good for MTV.
Even 80's Genesis albums were well design Phil Collins albums.

Still in all, without Phil Collins, Genesis would have die in the late 70's. And we know it.

[progfusion74]

Still in all, without Phil Collins, Genesis would have die in the late 70's. And we know it.

It was a band after all .

[jens]

Well, personally I love supper's ready, firth of fifth,
the cinema show, dancing with the moonlit knight etc.

- I also love Billy don't lose my number, in the air tonight, I don't care anymore, against all odds, do you know do you care, etc.

- I also love Domino, in too deep, no reply at all, mama, home by the sea, silver rainbow, driving while you sleep etc.

[smp]

Quick question for all you Genesis/prog freaks out there (only a handful I know. ).

I've been into Peter Gabriel for quite a while now. What I'm curious about now is early Genesis, which I've heard so much about but have never heard. Bear in mind that I was born in 1978 so the only Genesis I'm familar with has Phil Collins running the show (which to me has always been a godawful experience).

What's some good Gabriel-era Genesis to check out? Just as importantly, where should I stop?

-s

Don't hate the player (Phil Collins), hate the game (Yamaha DX7).

But seriously, try the first volume of Genesis's box set. That alone covers the band's Peter Gabriel era.

You probably missed it in amongst the mega-posts, but I've admitted that I may have been hasty in automatically dismissing Phil Collins era stuff without really hearing it. I read an interview in the paper yesterday with Phil, and while I still don't like a lot of his solo stuff, I have certainly softened on my opinion of the man in general.

One thing he said was that a lot of the backlash against his solo work in the 80s was because radio played his songs ad nauseum. He said "I'm sorry, but it's not my fault that they radios kept playing the songs". The impression I got was that he never sought such a high level of exposure and he appeared to feel that he has suffered over the years because of this exposure. Of course, it might not have been his fault that Sussudio was flogged senselessly, but I that doesn't mean I have to like it

Anyway, I've decided to just keep my eyes out for Genesis stuff in the 70s that's going cheap, and work out which direction I want to go from there.

Everyone's suggestions have been greatly appreciated, even if in the end I think just about every Genesis album got a plug as "the best place to start"

-s

[smp]

Oh, and another interesting thing he said in the interview...

The interviewer asked if Phil would ever return to his prog roots and his reply was something like the following (I don't have it in front of me so I can't quote it exactly)

I would love to tour with Genesis, but I wouldn't want to do it without Peter. Unfortunately, Peter would never sing songs from after he left so...yeah, you'd more likely see a Genesis tour without Peter than with

Seems to still be a lot of respect between the two after all these years. A rare thing in the music business....