Ableton Live 4 versus Cubase

[dlt123]

Mix section in Ableton Live 4 is too, too,too bad
But Cubase is mixing well.

Hi Goshalev, do you mean 'Bad' like, awesomely good or 'Bad' like it sucks? Could you be a little more specific for 20 second thinkers like myself?

Thanks,
DennisT

[9b0]

Mix section in Ableton Live 4 is too, too,too bad
But Cubase is mixing well.

Did you compare them, or do you just say, what you wanted to hear? I compared them, i have done a mix on 10 channels, with the same volume parameters on both (SX2 and Live3). The result was the same. (i subtracted Live3 from the Cubase mix)

[Green Red Brownell]

sorry, you wanted reasons.

This is personal remember, everyone's needs vary.

Live's Midi sux. I am a heavy vsti user. There's my reason. Ironically I still use Live 3 rewired to SX to audition drum loops realtime at SX project tempo. when SX3 has this feature, live is gone.

Is this true of Live 4?? If so, why so?? I am not being argumentative... I have SX3 and am thinking of picking up Live for the "workflow" issues. Why would it suck to use several VSTi's in Live 4?? Does it just use more CPU in comparison to Cubase??

[Later] I've just finished reading the whole thread, and so far, no one has really answered how well or badly Live 4 handles VSTi's. Some have mentioned that its MIDI editing isn't as advanced as Cubase, but I already know that. It's not a deal-breaker. If it can't cope with multiple VSTi's, now that's a deal-breaker. Anyone have experience with Live 4 in this area that they'd like to share??

[stag]

Ableton compared with SX3 ,what a joke .
as a loop tool it excells SX3 ,but that´s not the aim of SX3.
but as a sequencer ,i don´t think it´s a proper sequencer...how do you map tempo on live, or change the time signature ,or make a ritardando?? its pretty basic and dance music orientated.
the WARP engine is bad as in suck big time ,i´m all
the way MPEX. MPEX rocks audio files are stretched in a much more efficient and musical way.

as a loop tool live looses when compared with Acid 5

SX3 and Acid a killer duo . the groove templates make all the diferrence.
Also on Acid i can introduce tempo changes and different tempo signatures.


Ableton gained all is credits among the MAC users that for a long time didn´t have something like ACID on theyr platforms.
ence the hype that has echoed among Mac community and some highly biased press.

[dlt123]

sorry, you wanted reasons.

This is personal remember, everyone's needs vary.

Live's Midi sux. I am a heavy vsti user. There's my reason. Ironically I still use Live 3 rewired to SX to audition drum loops realtime at SX project tempo. when SX3 has this feature, live is gone.

Is this true of Live 4?? If so, why so?? I am not being argumentative... I have SX3 and am thinking of picking up Live for the "workflow" issues. Why would it suck to use several VSTi's in Live 4?? Does it just use more CPU in comparison to Cubase??

[Later] I've just finished reading the whole thread, and so far, no one has really answered how well or badly Live 4 handles VSTi's. Some have mentioned that its MIDI editing isn't as advanced as Cubase, but I already know that. It's not a deal-breaker. If it can't cope with multiple VSTi's, now that's a deal-breaker. Anyone have experience with Live 4 in this area that they'd like to share??

I just purchased Live 4. I haven't used it too much yet, but so far I have had ZERO problems with it and I use VST's exclusively. I've loaded Atmosphere, Rhino, Kubic and Cameleon at the same time and haven't had any problems. TTOZ mentioned he was using Live 3. Midi handling was the big change made for Live 4.

I was considering upgrading to SX3, but needed a change from Cubase so I bought Live 4. I was always frustrated with Cubase, must of been me, but I've been able to do so much more with Live 4 than I ever did with Cubase VST/32 5.2.

TTOZ mentioned it was his personal opinion and this is mine. YMMV, I'm no Pro and I coming from a 'New Owner' point of view.

For the record, I use it to write Ambient/Dark Space music and it works fine for me.

After more experience with Live, I'll have a better idea, but so far I love it. Personally, I am SOLD on Live 4 for what I need it to do. I may use it someday for Tarnce, but right now I'm contented writing Ambient.

Download the Live 4 Demo and go through the Tutorials to see whether you want it or not. That's what I did and I bought it.

http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=downloads

DennisT

[stale bread]

stag your post is full of mis-information, at least read the manual before you lead people astray, you probably didn't mean to but allz i'm sayin is.....


you map tempo by typing in the tempo you want in the scene you'd like that tempo to apply to.

you change time signature in the upper lefthand corner of the program.

[quincy]

Ableton compared with SX3 ,what a joke .
as a loop tool it excells SX3 ,but that´s not the aim of SX3.
but as a sequencer ,i don´t think it´s a proper sequencer...how do you map tempo on live, or change the time signature ,or make a ritardando?? its pretty basic and dance music orientated.
the WARP engine is bad as in suck big time ,i´m all
the way MPEX. MPEX rocks audio files are stretched in a much more efficient and musical way.

as a loop tool live looses when compared with Acid 5

SX3 and Acid a killer duo . the groove templates make all the diferrence.
Also on Acid i can introduce tempo changes and different tempo signatures.


Ableton gained all is credits among the MAC users that for a long time didn´t have something like ACID on theyr platforms.
ence the hype that has echoed among Mac community and some highly biased press.

Don't take this personally, but Live absolutely pisses all over Acid any day of the week.

I'd love to see some of the live-performance Live 4 stuff being done in Acid. I somehow doubt it.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Green Red Brownell]

Thanks, dlt... that's what I needed to hear. Check back once you have a better idea of how well (or poorly) it handles lots of VST's.

I think I'll probably jump on the deal I'm going to explain below:


http://www.samash.com currently has a very few copies of Ableton Live 3 available in their closeout area for $199. That's about 1/2 price. Then you can upgrade to Live 4 from the Ableton site for either $49 (download) or $79 (boxed copy).

That's a total of about $278 for a boxed copy, against the cheapest price I could find online for Ablton 4, which was about $365. So, it's a little bit of a deal. But there aren't many closeout copies left... just 1 or 2. So, better jump to it.

Go here:

http://www.samash.com/home/

and search for "Ableton Live 3".

Good luck...


-- Green

[Architect]

Most of the people that have a problem with Live just don't know how to use it properly and or don't understand the true focus of the software. It's not actually supposed to take the place of a full fledged sequence like Cubase or Sonar, etc, but to be honest with you I can record my vocals inside of Live, all my tracks, the entire band, what audio or midi sounds I want, VERY EASILY without going through a million steps. Live is strictly for the musician/producer/artist that wants to be more creative than technical. For some people this isn't the way they work so for them Live just doesn't make since and they would rather use something else because they feel they're getting more out of their program because it's more complicated to use. Live only has two views session and arrangement, Live excels at what it is supposed to do, it doesn't claim to take the place of any full blown sequencers so this thread is really an unfair comparison, but many Live users find that they end up using their bloated sequencer like Cubase a lot less when using Live.

[Green Red Brownell]

I don't think I have any illusions about what Live is about... many people have given apt descriptions in this thread and I've read every review that I could get my hands on. Live gives you the ability to capture stuff quickly, and mess around with it easily. Less of a learning curve, less overhead. Once you have your ideas down, then you can switch to Cubase (or Logic, or whatever), if you want.

One thing that is apparent is that Live is putting more development effort into their product right now. They are still clearly "behind" the full-featured DAW's, but are gaining pretty fast. We'll see if they can keep it up.....

[original flipper]

HI

I don't doubt that Live will eventually do as much with Midi as it does with Audio; and that is when I will get a lot more use from it.

I don't personally agree with the comments about both Live and Acid's Midi implementation as being a side dish or simply there to add a bit of extra potential for the main loop or audio manipulation that the programs were originally intended to be used for - IMO if you are going to put a feature in then do it right and do it so it is as usable as any other aspect of the program, I don't think either program (especially Acid) deal with Midi very well, the most fundemental basic for 'usable' Midi editing and input is a Piano-Roll that is big enough to use and although you can frig around extending Lives Midi screen IMO life is too short to be flaffing around like that; I think this is also a problem in Tracktion.

If your going to implement something get the basic's right, it really shouldn't be a big deal for any of those host's to have a full screen Piano-Roll, I think by V5 Live will have it and probably Tracktion will in V2 but the current default in all these programs needs looking at - I, like many others would much rather use a single host to work within that meets the basic visual needs of working with Audio and Midi than have to re-wire or whatever.

Flipper.

[dlt123]

Thanks, dlt... that's what I needed to hear. Check back once you have a better idea of how well (or poorly) it handles lots of VST's.

I think I'll probably jump on the deal I'm going to explain below:


http://www.samash.com currently has a very few copies of Ableton Live 3 available in their closeout area for $199. That's about 1/2 price. Then you can upgrade to Live 4 from the Ableton site for either $49 (download) or $79 (boxed copy).

That's a total of about $278 for a boxed copy, against the cheapest price I could find online for Ablton 4, which was about $365. So, it's a little bit of a deal. But there aren't many closeout copies left... just 1 or 2. So, better jump to it.

Go here:

http://www.samash.com/home/

and search for "Ableton Live 3".

Good luck...


-- Green

I like your logic, but if you want to cut to the chase, take a look at JR. I got my NEW boxed version of Live 4, for $290, since they were back ordered. They are selling it for $299, but if you call them and say you know someone who got it for $290, shipping included from them, I bet you could get the same deal.

(Hi I'm Dennis, nice to meet you. Now you can say you know me.)

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process ... .ABN+LIVE4

Another avenue for Live 4. Check it out.

DennisT

[Green Red Brownell]

Wow, J&R Music World. I used to work about 1 block from the place for about 2 years. They were mostly a record store back then (I mean LP's... this was the late 70's), and had just started expanding into things like Walkmans, and then stereo equipment.

They're a great place to buy from. Didn't know they carried a lot of music software, tho'. Site's down for maintenance right now, I'll go check 'em out later. Do they have closeouts?? ;<).

Already jumped on the SamAsh deal, so I'll just have to go the upgrade route....

[TVD]

Most of the people that have a problem with Live just don't know how to use it properly and or don't understand the true focus of the software. It's not actually supposed to take the place of a full fledged sequence like Cubase or Sonar, etc, but to be honest with you I can record my vocals inside of Live, all my tracks, the entire band, what audio or midi sounds I want, VERY EASILY without going through a million steps. Live is strictly for the musician/producer/artist that wants to be more creative than technical. For some people this isn't the way they work so for them Live just doesn't make since and they would rather use something else because they feel they're getting more out of their program because it's more complicated to use. Live only has two views session and arrangement, Live excels at what it is supposed to do, it doesn't claim to take the place of any full blown sequencers so this thread is really an unfair comparison, but many Live users find that they end up using their bloated sequencer like Cubase a lot less when using Live.

Exactly!!!