Reason 3.0 demo impressions

[quincy]

I can't believe that people think that the props will EVER add VST support, because they quite clearly won't. Its been marketed as a closed system, and a stable one at that, since the beginning. If they were going to do it they would have done it by now. I'd suggest those who want VST suport go get another host to use in combination with reason, cos you'll be in for a hell of a wait otherwise!

Honestly, its so obvious that its never going to happen its just painful to watch people still going on about it. Its a closed system and it always will be, so accept it and find another solution.

[stefancrs]

I agree that VST support actually doesn't belong there. They could add support for recording audio though. The audio files can easily be contained within a closed system.

[headquest]

reason's major weakness right now, imho, is the lack of any plugin support. i think they should design some sort of VST module which can be loaded into the rack, then allows you to load a VST.

for me it's what's keeping Reason from being a 'serious' program.

Propellerhead is a buisness , to add vst support would likely slow down the sales of reason refill's as people are more likely to buy a vst synth instead , so it would be a very bad buisness move for propellerhead.

on the other hand reason has every plugin support you can think of in the name of REWIRE.

And they sell a lot of refills do they?

Yes.

[lucille]

Aside from the drum and strings refills--i don't think props have agressively gotten into the refill market. I don't know if they make a percent on 3rd party refills. but i doubt it. The refill compressor
is freely availible.

I would say that refill support is something that makes Reason very attractive. Its seems like Reason had 3rd party support from day one--I'm not sure how props got everyone on the train so quickly--but establishing the refill and rewire standards has no
doubt contributed to the success of Reason.

[drez]

...getting back to Reason--i have taken the drez test and post below my impressions of the 1st ten
pad combinator presets:


additive pad: a mushy mess of rv-7 reverb

If you turn the 2nd combinator knob, it shuts off the reverb.

coin pad: characteristic harsh digital malstrom sound married to a passable sub string patch

What do you think a coin drop is supposed to sound like? Its "metallic" because a coin drop is a harsh tone.

You can mute the coin, change the pitch of the drop with knob2, tweak the growing buzz in the pad on knob3, change the volume of the "bounce" of the coin as if it were dropped from different heigths. Hold it down for awhile an lets it work.

ancient of days: nice cinematic style pad--nothing
special--but very nice

While holding down the pad did you tweak the 2nd button to bring in the resonate tap sound that has a nice hint of reverb and delay? While the pad is playing, you can triger that and put in nice little taps at your control. Tweak knob 3 and you'll hear a 2nd brighter pad sweep . I think that the filter on the entire patch sounds really good and you can easily control resonance of that filter with knob 2.

Personally, I found this to be a stellar patch.

epad: nicely programmed swell; the harshness of the sub is unmistakable

The "bloom" and "Slurs" buttons are very cool using controlled portamento. Hold the pad and turn each on and off to get a good port drop (Slurs) or rise (Bloom). I think the filters are harsh, but if you look at the setting on the subs, the patch is designed that way. Its opening way up.

guitar pad: emulating workstation is not always a great idea--this pad is the linear descedent of the inescapable "piano + strings" workstation patch except the the strings are incredibly harsh sub patch...ouch

The only thing harsh about that is the guitar and its supposed to be to "bite" through the pad. And no this ISN'T a piano and strings patch at all. A piano and strings patch doesn't have an analog pad that has a buzz that you control the rate of and a filter drop on it. Plus, this is a guitar sound, not a piano. They are going for Eastern. Try playing this with an Eastern scale with rubato timing and you'll get a nice feel. What in the world is harsh about the sub patch? I solo'd it out and I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you tweaking any of the controller knobs at all?

gyorgy: nice swirly pad; sometimes the digital quality of the malstrom sounds waldorfy
to me.

If you want something "less digital" in the patch, turn up knob one. I think the added fifth with the second Mal gives it a nice touch. Don't just tweak the Modulation wheel, tweak the filter knobs and you get nice "nonharsh" sweeps.

Huge pad: basic sawtooth string with a very cheesey rv-7 reverb--whats with using the old reverb in so many patches? Something about the unison is very problematic.

I think the verb sounds fine, but it would only take you a couple of clicks to replace it with an RV7000. I never had a problem with the old reverb.

As for the unison, cut the echo and it might be more what you are looking for. I also adjusted the detune down a bit.

lullaby: ugly digital drone with the unison seemingly pulling things off key

There are 2 very distinct pad sounds that are in play on this patch. If you don't like the Unison, the tweak it with Knob 3 (Sleepiness). This patch has some really creative controller options, Just turn the knobs while holding the pad! The Duvet Knob will sweep the filter, the Tone knob does a great job of bringing the saw pad in front and behind and Dreaminess brings the patch in front or washes it by changing the wet/dry of the reverb.

plucked cloud: rhodes like mal patch followed by digital string\chior noise. see "piano + strings"

Are you even playing these patches for more than 2 seconds? This has TONS of options? The overdrive button brings out the underlying pad nicely, quickly adjusting the attack and release knobs takes the "rhodes" as you call it (more of en EP tine sound to me) and makes it a pad by turning up the attack time. Did you try the Noise knob? If you hold it down for awhile, turn the knob and listen in the back ground. You'll hear some subtle flanging in the background. The Glide button is Awesome! This completely changes the characteristic of the "rhodes" and makes it a nice monopohic-like portamento lead! This patch is awesome!

big beautiful nothing: I loved the name...a rather shrill malstrom sub samdwich with sort of lfo mod--played above middle C this sounds aggressively shrill, in lower ovtaves it has sort of
a romantic quality

Aggressively shrill? Try hitting the "Less Nothing" button to turn off the "shrill". I think the Modulation Wheels "Grain Shift" on the mal can be used uniquely with while adjusting the delay (knobs 3 and 4). You can get nice echoing artifcats of the grain sweep.



Lucille, I can't believe that you tried tweaking any of these patches with the assigned controller knobs. Patches are more than riding a mod wheel and Pad patches have more when you hold it down for more than 5 seconds seconds. Let the pad breathe.

[headquest]

Great post drez - nicely done!

Like any instrument (acoustic, VST, Reason) this all takes a little longer than half and hour to master and be good at

[headquest]

Actually, headquest I will be buying it. I love
reason as sampler and drum machine.

I'm similar in fact (mostly use the NN-XT and ReDrum, but often use Subtracktor or basses and Maelstrom for synth pads.).

I reckon that once you have the full program and spend a longer while with it the new features will grow on you - I really do think its a good upgrade, though for me the MClass and control surface stuff are the bigger draws.

And I agree that a new synth or two would be great soon. The props have hinted that new modules ARE on the way over the coming months, and have taken on more staff. I'm hopeful for a mind-blowing 3.5 free upgrade (in the autumn?) to match the great 2.5 upgrade, and I think a new synth is definitely the way they will go next

[John Vulich]

JohnVulich i honestly think you don't know what your talking about saying things like "Propellerheads do make some very odd business choises" is laughable , Propellerhead make good buisness choise's like not including vst so people still buy refills also anybody who owns another host program can still be tempted to buy reason because of rewire.

I never said that they had a “bad” business sense. They have obviously created and marketed a very well designed product that has become very popular. I just said they make some odd business choices. For instance…

I think marketing a set of modules as a “Mastering Suite” in a program that can’t practically be used for mastering is... well... odd.

I think they also have exhibited a somewhat schizophrenic attitude about the identity of the program which they sometimes insist is a “Soft Synth” and sometimes refer to as...

more than just a set of excellent synths and effects. It's a complete music system.

They seem to like using the “Soft Synth” moniker when deflecting criticisms regarding features the program lacks. They use the term “complete music system.” When they want to pry you away from your cash. Again… I find this odd. YMMV.

Also in an earlier thread you used the phrase "Preset whores", well i like presets so do many other musicians there good to get some ideas down then you can alway tweek them , i couldn't think of anything more boring than buying a vst that didn't ship with any presets.
I still use a lot of presets in my music and ive got a record deal and will be playing live at Glastonbury this year , although i use some presets in my music im always told i have a sound of my own to which i agree.

You are taking what I wrote entirely out of context. I used that term to perhaps explain why some people thought that the Combinator was going to be able to create new sounds that weren’t possible with 2.5. The assumption being that these people don’t do enough fiddling around with the sound modules to really be able to tell how a sound was put together anyway. I have no problems whatsoever with people using presets.

Funny, it’s the second time someone has gotten defensive and taken that term out of context. I must have inadvertently hit some sort of nerve.

[John Vulich]

So I would say, stop trying to compare Reason with your sequencer and look at it for what it is - a great sounding instrument that you can really rely on. The fact that it has a sequencer built on doesn't make it a replacement for your main host. My keyboard has a sequencer on it too (but dosn't record audio or host VSTs ), and Reason 3.0 is an instrument just the same - it's that simple.

Well the Propellerheads are using statements such as this in their marketing...

And it's more than just a set of excellent synths and effects. It's a complete music system.

Apparently they don't see it as just an "instrument". Anyway, you are going to have to expect that there is going to be some critisism when the program falls short of these sorts of claims.

[braj]

What a waste of energy.

[John Vulich]

What a waste of energy.

What the hell are you supposed to do in a public forum anyway? Isn't the point to get involved in discussion and debate? What's your f**king problem with that?

[braj]

What a waste of energy.

What the hell are you supposed to do in a public forum anyway? Isn't the point to get involved in discussion and debate? What's your f**king problem with that?

I'm just saying, you've made your points, others have made theirs. Now you're just rehashing it all over again. Original points = decent use of energy. Subsequent attempts to get people who aren't going to agree with you no matter what = a waste of energy.

[Amberience]

I think marketing a set of modules as a “Mastering Suite” in a program that can’t practically be used for mastering is... well... odd.

If they're saying its a complete music system, then it is fine that they call it a mastering suite. If they're saying you don't need anything else to make music, then people who decide they don't need anything else except Reason can use it as a mastering suite.

Those who feel they need to go outside of the program don't really have an argument - they know the limitations, why get huffy about it?

I wrote this whilst I was high though, so maybe it don't make sense.

[original flipper]

HI

I love hearing people getting so hung up about what X host can and can't do - but Reason is the one that gets it the most.

Rest assured that for many genres reason can dish up the goods and then some - I heard some soon to be released D&B this evening done in Reason, Neuendo and Neuendo with reason Re-Wired and I could not seperate any of it - in fact some of the 100% Reason stuff (I was later told what was done with what) using some quality refills was ASTOUNDING.

Other people I know have had top 40 hits with Reason and have remixed some pretty well known groups using samples of the original tracks thrown into dr Rex and the other sample playback modules - I don't use Reason a lot - I bloody well should though!!!

To me if you can get a sample into a system then IT AINT LOCKED - record your vocal/Gtr or whatever and then drop it in.

REASON CAN ROCK!!!

Flipper.

[John Vulich]

What a waste of energy.

What the hell are you supposed to do in a public forum anyway? Isn't the point to get involved in discussion and debate? What's your f**king problem with that?

I'm just saying, you've made your points, others have made theirs. Now you're just rehashing it all over again. Original points = decent use of energy. Subsequent attempts to get people who aren't going to agree with you no matter what = a waste of energy.

I agree but I responded to these because I felt that I was either misunderstood or my statements were taken out of context. So I just wanted to set the record straight.

I also find it quite amusing to watch the Reason apologist/sicophants jump through the hoops that the Propellerheads have taught them to jump through.