KVR Audio

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:43 am

ZaBong69 wrote:
I would not have thought that Dune 2 can sound like this - that is, raw and squelchy. Acid is not my favourite thing, but I suspect that Dune 2 has a lot more tricks in its sleeve if it can do that.
.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6036781

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:52 am

ZaBong69 wrote:
None of the requests EnGee asks for strikes me as particulary demanding to implement. 4 FM is pretty standard, 2 Filters in series should be ok if you can do 8 in parallel, as Dune does right now, and the rest is UI. This also are quite sensible suggestions.

I am genuinely puzzled by your comment, Dasheesh.

Had nothing to do with engee as my next post suggests. I am panicking over this second filter thing as there is no reason for it whatsoever and I suspect they will have to lower the audio quality to pull it off. They already caved though so I'm in wait and see mode. I have no idea why some people are insisting on making it another spire when they already own spire... I have no say on anything though so we will see.

ZaBong69 · Post by **ZaBong69** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:03 pm

AnX wrote:
ZaBong69 wrote:
I would not have thought that Dune 2 can sound like this - that is, raw and squelchy. Acid is not my favourite thing, but I suspect that Dune 2 has a lot more tricks in its sleeve if it can do that.
.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6036781

Thanks.

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:42 pm

ZaBong69 wrote:Another thing about Dune 2, I was really suprised by a free soundset found here:

I would not have thought that Dune 2 can sound like this - that is, raw and squelchy. Acid is not my favourite thing, but I suspect that Dune 2 has a lot more tricks in its sleeve if it can do that.

I really wish that Dune had a more immediate access to modulations, like e.g. Serum or Avenger, modulating things feels like doing spreadsheet calculations. Otherwise, Dune 2 would get far more use, as it is so low on ressources and can do all the essentials.

I thought Dune 2 had a 303 filter?

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:57 pm

v1o wrote:
ZaBong69 wrote:Another thing about Dune 2, I was really suprised by a free soundset found here:

I would not have thought that Dune 2 can sound like this - that is, raw and squelchy. Acid is not my favourite thing, but I suspect that Dune 2 has a lot more tricks in its sleeve if it can do that.

I really wish that Dune had a more immediate access to modulations, like e.g. Serum or Avenger, modulating things feels like doing spreadsheet calculations. Otherwise, Dune 2 would get far more use, as it is so low on ressources and can do all the essentials.
I thought Dune 2 had a 303 filter?

It has some kind of acid filter and generates great acid riffs, but this... o.O I wouldn't expect 303 emulation in Dune!

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:59 pm

Its pretty good actually, especially using the internal seq

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:03 pm

Dasheesh wrote:
ZaBong69 wrote:
None of the requests EnGee asks for strikes me as particulary demanding to implement. 4 FM is pretty standard, 2 Filters in series should be ok if you can do 8 in parallel, as Dune does right now, and the rest is UI. This also are quite sensible suggestions.

I am genuinely puzzled by your comment, Dasheesh.

Had nothing to do with engee as my next post suggests. I am panicking over this second filter thing as there is no reason for it whatsoever and I suspect they will have to lower the audio quality to pull it off.

Don't worry man. Richard knows his sh**.

And i don't think a second filter necessarily blows it out of proportion either, CPU wise. I know, the "circuit modelled ZDF filters with gazillions of non-linearities" people always teach us otherwise, but, a synth doesn't need to max out a i7. Not, if you're not keen on emulating every single little fart a analog synth makes.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:44 pm

You can always switch the second filter off (Massive or Largo in mind). I usually use one or two layers, so that I don't feel a need for a high end CPU.
With routings like Massive or Largo for two filters, this might even make me use just one later (mostly!). I can route OSC1 to Filt1 and OSC2 to Filt2 with two different filters (Dune 2 has several different kinds) while using OSC3 as a sub

I think with the modulations possibilities, that would make it another massive synth but with a different character

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:44 pm

I don't see the point when all you have to do is provide more filter shapes to the filter you have. We will see though, maybe synapse will surprise me.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:52 pm

chk071, I don't hate you, I'm not trying to hate on you, but if you don't hear the difference between Dune on low cpu setting, and Dune on high cpu settings that's on you.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:26 am

Dasheesh wrote:I don't see the point when all you have to do is provide more filter shapes to the filter you have. We will see though, maybe synapse will surprise me.

I also don't see the point for version 3!
if there is no change in the sound engine/routings and it is only a cosmetic/GUI/Workflow upgrade, then I possibly won't upgrade.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:37 am

Dasheesh wrote:chk071, I don't hate you, I'm not trying to hate on you, but if you don't hear the difference between Dune on low cpu setting, and Dune on high cpu settings that's on you.

I fail to see how that has anything to do with what i wrote above. Also, let me quote from the Dune 2 manual:

Modulation rate
The modulation rate determines how frequently the modulation matrix is evaluated.
Normal rate is almost always sufficient, and the best choice for most sounds.

Fast and Very fast rates are useful when you use rapid LFO modulations (>100 Hz), or when you use MSEGs with very fast envelopes.

Audio Rate mode processes the entire synth engine sample by sample. This allows to e.g. use
oscillators as modulation sources and modulate any (!) sound parameter with them accurately. Note that audio rate modulation is very CPUintensive and should be only used when really needed.
Also note that a higher modulation rate does not equal better sound — if you cannot hear a difference, do not use a higher modulation rate, this will just waste precious CPU cycles.

There is no magical increase in sound quality, just because you switch on that option. If that was what you are after, frankly, i'm not even sure if that's the case.

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:44 am

EnGee wrote:
Dasheesh wrote:I don't see the point when all you have to do is provide more filter shapes to the filter you have. We will see though, maybe synapse will surprise me.
I also don't see the point for version 3!
if there is no change in the sound engine/routings and it is only a cosmetic/GUI/Workflow upgrade, then I possibly won't upgrade.

Well, That's a fine line I guess. We also have to consider that it drums up more optics and awareness of synapse, and people love an upgrade. There are some things that can be done of course, but I just let go of spire and took on Dune 2 a couple of weeks ago though because of the perceived upgrade in sound quality, and then the whole dune 3 thing drops and the preset designers come out and yell at the developer to do all this stuff so they can sell more presets, but it may not be in the best interest of the product. Like I said. I don't have a say in any of it, I'm just an end user. Maybe I'll be surprised. Have a nice one engee.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:33 am

Dasheesh wrote: Well, That's a fine line I guess. We also have to consider that it drums up more optics and awareness of synapse, and people love an upgrade. There are some things that can be done of course, but I just let go of spire and took on Dune 2 a couple of weeks ago though because of the perceived upgrade in sound quality, and then the whole dune 3 thing drops and the preset designers come out and yell at the developer to do all this stuff so they can sell more presets, but it may not be in the best interest of the product. Like I said. I don't have a say in any of it, I'm just an end user. Maybe I'll be surprised. Have a nice one engee.

I like Spire, but I only demoing it from time to time. I love its GUI and colours. The workflow is also great and of course the sound is really nice. I many time almost bought it in the market place, but I stopped in the last second! I don't know. I prefer Dune 2 more than other wavetable synths (except Massive and Largo/Blofeld as those are very different). Anyway, it is either Dune 2 or Spire (or Icarus or ..etc) for me, especially it is not the only synth I have (it means there are other great synths that I love and use).

For the next version, well, It is up to Richard (or the developers in general) to decide and implement the final features. So, as you said, let's wait and see. It can't be a bad thing! Till then, we have Dune 2 to enjoy

ZaBong69 · Post by **ZaBong69** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:21 am

Dasheesh wrote:chk071, I don't hate you, I'm not trying to hate on you, but if you don't hear the difference between Dune on low cpu setting, and Dune on high cpu settings that's on you.

There is no difficulty to hear any difference as soon as you use an OSC as a modulation source - FM really needs very fast modulation to work properly then. You can even hear 44kHz vs. 80kHz sampling rate in some instances when you do this.

On the other side - I made an experiment yesterday where I tried to hear the difference between different quality settings on envelopes - nope, sorry, nothing. There is no difference I hear at all when the quality setting is changed - testimony to a well designed handling of envelopes in Dune 2.

So as a working hypothesis, I believe Dune 2 needs high quality setting only when you use high-speed FM modulations on filters and OSC frequencies, not for "improving" envelopes.

Best,

K

DUNE 2 is out now!!