Diva Vs. Real Analog

[Hank the Knife]

I am sure the Stones are a 10s band. I mean.. take a look at Keef's bandana!

[Z1202]

Abusing a synth, what is the purpose of that? There was a video of a Japanese guy kind of abusing a Minimoog pages ago, but frankly, most of those sounds had no musical value in my view.
Extreme sounds may be of interest to about 1% of synth users, for the rest stuff from Xils, Tal, GForce, U-he etc. will do.

Musical enough?
http://vk.com/wall161447783_2956

And can't you do that on a good standard soft synth?

I don't know. I came reasonably close trying to do the same on the Syn'X demo, although it was not 100% easy. OTOH, I just accidentally came across this sound fooling around with the square oscillator. That's the point, do you come across interesting sounds by fooling around? With how many softsynths can you go into the extremes? And how rich are those extremes?

[fmr]

NEVER MIND

[wagtunes]

Well. in the middle of all this arguing, I finished my Diva library. I'll probably release it sometime in September.

Yes, shameless plug.

Oh, and complete with "Lucky Man" patch.

Or something loosely resembling it.

Your mileage may vary.

Carry on.

[bmrzycki]

Abusing a synth, what is the purpose of that? There was a video of a Japanese guy kind of abusing a Minimoog pages ago, but frankly, most of those sounds had no musical value in my view.
Extreme sounds may be of interest to about 1% of synth users, for the rest stuff from Xils, Tal, GForce, U-he etc. will do.

Musical enough?
http://vk.com/wall161447783_2956

Sure. It also sounds like something I'd be able to quite close to with Bazille and its fractalize osc mode. At least close enough that'd I'd be happy with.

I listened to several of the demos you and zerocrossing posted and honestly I didn't find anything that impressed me so much as to think dealing with a large, expensive, single-instance device was worth it.

Maybe I just have a tin ear and can't hear the extra something these hardware synths fans claim they have. The omega8 example was pleasant but I heard sounds that I have soft synths that can replicate close enough to work in a mix for my humble needs.

I get it, some people really like the sound of certain devices. I'd be devastated if I lost Zebra2. But that's not a software/hardware thing. That's just the emotions I attach a set of sounds I love and the thing that makes those noises.

[deastman]

I would say a 70's band is a band whose prime time was in the 70's

Yes, because 'prime time' is so universally defined and agreed upon for bands, especially those who's careers span multiple decades, as is the case for all three acts mentioned as 70s bands.

So much so noone is allowed to refer to the band by the decade they were formed, lest the 'usual suspect' turn up.

Human League ; formed in the 70's, best album recorded in 1979, absolutely cannot be described as a 70s band.

To be honest, I'm not that interested in quibbling over what years certain bands were in their prime. If some people feel that I listed 80's bands and not 70's bands, fine, whatever. Let's keep some perspective here: my point to Wagtunes was that there was an alternative to prog, which he had already acknowledged himself himself.

I do get his perspective, that he was disappointed by the sounds he got from these synths and had a negative association with analog synths. My first synth, as I've often mentioned, was a DW-6000. I hated, and still hate the sound of that thing. I was thrilled to finally have a synth after wanting one for years, and couldn't really understand at the time why I wasn't able to make it sound like the music I listened to. It wasn't until after I'd added an Emax and several ROMplers that I picked up a cheap Juno-106 and suddenly realized that the old "crappy" analogs were much more to my liking. And so began my true descent into GAS...

[Hank the Knife]

Sorry for interrupting, but I bet you did not see this before!

[IncarnateX]

NEVER MIND

Ah come on! It is a very relevant and important discussion with respect to DIVA versus X and I like to know whether I can say that a band is from the 80s on basis on their most popular album dispite the fact that it was made in the 70s. There must be a completely objective scientific way to solve this. Come again, Tyson!

[fluffy_little_something]

Abusing a synth, what is the purpose of that? There was a video of a Japanese guy kind of abusing a Minimoog pages ago, but frankly, most of those sounds had no musical value in my view.
Extreme sounds may be of interest to about 1% of synth users, for the rest stuff from Xils, Tal, GForce, U-he etc. will do.

Musical enough?
http://vk.com/wall161447783_2956

And can't you do that on a good standard soft synth?

I don't know. I came reasonably close trying to do the same on the Syn'X demo, although it was not 100% easy. OTOH, I just accidentally came across this sound fooling around with the square oscillator. That's the point, do you come across interesting sounds by fooling around? With how many softsynths can you go into the extremes? And how rich are those extremes?

I am sure you could get equally good results with quality soft synths if your computer is powerful enough to support Divine and similar modes.
No, I don't belong to that 1% looking for extreme sounds, I already know what sounds I like before I start programming patches. Rarely do I happen to stumble upon a nice sound by accident or playing around.

[zerocrossing]

Well the minimoog is quite a limited instrument. I can't stand one myself so I have no problem hearing similar opinions.

The filter is okay, certainly unique although Moog's BS about it being the best possible filter ever I find really annoying. His quotes about how nobody could ever design something as good sounded extremely pompous. Sort of on the Donald Trump level, so you have to give him credit for his marketing ability. It's all about selling yourself and your product really.

When it comes right down to it though the instruments all have numerous issues and as I said, I'd never aim to own one myself even for a reasonable price like $300-$500.

I somewhat agree. I remember the first time with one and thinking, "Where is the LFO section?" This was later in the 80s. In the 70s I was too concerned with guitars to mess with synthesizers. I had already owned a Juno 106 and seen first hand what a Synclavier could do. The Model D seemed very "crude" in comparison.

But I get it. You could easily say the same thing about an old Les Paul. If you compare it to my Steinberger GM4T it could seem crude to the uninitiated. Still, an old Les Paul and a Model D are not for me, though I can appreciate them. The magic is in their basic sound. They have characteristics that just make them classic.

Anyway, I think the modern Moogs are good, and the Studio Electronics take on that sound even better. I can even get a little taste of the Model D in Monark... and add velocity and aftertouch to make it an even more expressive instrument.

[fmr]

NEVER MIND

... I like to know whether I can say that a band is from the 80s on basis on their most popular album dispite the fact that it was made in the 70s. There must be a completely objective scientific way to solve this. Come again, Tyson!

What album and which band are you talking about?

[fluffy_little_something]

I would say a 70's band is a band whose prime time was in the 70's

Yes, because 'prime time' is so universally defined and agreed upon for bands, especially those who's careers span multiple decades, as is the case for all three acts mentioned as 70s bands.

So much so noone is allowed to refer to the band by the decade they were formed, lest the 'usual suspect' turn up.

Human League ; formed in the 70's, best album recorded in 1979, absolutely cannot be described as a 70s band.

You make things more complicated than they are. With most long-lived bands it is indeed possible to specify their prime period, after that they tend to rest on their laurels and repeat themselves into retirement. On a diagram it basically looks like a typical amp envelope
To me Human League were a typical 80's band, sorry.

[zerocrossing]

The DX7 was on the way out (thank God as I always hated that thing even though I bought one) and synths were growing up.

You keep mentioning you hated this or that synth, but if you didn't like it when you heard it (tried them out in a music store I guess?) why bother buying any them? If I don't like something, I am certainly not going to buy it.

The DX7 and Minimoog were two of the most popular synths ever. You bought both of those, but you hate them at the same time.

As I said, I was taken in by the guy in the store who was a concert pianist. He made that DX7 grand piano sound great. And compared to "grand piano" sounds up to that point in time, it was great. But as the years went on, I began to hear how horrible this instrument sounded as far as "real" sounds.

Again, I was looking for "realistic" instruments. I was not looking to make "outer space sci fi" sounds.

I was also pretty damn young too. Today, I would have never bought 99% of the stuff I bought then. But when you're a kid, things are different.

Yes, I'm older and smarter now. It doesn't change how I feel about old hardware.

It really wasn't that great.

It seems you spend your life looking at what things are not instead of looking at what they are.

In the 70s I was into British Invasion/Psychedelia and the synth stuff I heard that was trying to replicate real instruments did sound really cheezy to me. Still does. It wasn't until later that I saw what more forward thinking people were doing with them and I got it.

[IncarnateX]

NEVER MIND

... I like to know whether I can say that a band is from the 80s on basis on their most popular album dispite the fact that it was made in the 70s. There must be a completely objective scientific way to solve this. Come again, Tyson!

What album and which band are you talking about?

Don't answer me. Answer Mr. Rybbyt. It's whatever bands he is talking about

[wagtunes]

NEVER MIND

... I like to know whether I can say that a band is from the 80s on basis on their most popular album dispite the fact that it was made in the 70s. There must be a completely objective scientific way to solve this. Come again, Tyson!

What album and what band are you talking about?

Probably Human League. They formed in the late 70s but their first monster hit wasn't until "Don't You Want Me" which I think was 1981.

Personally, I consider them an 80s band as I didn't hear of them until the 80s, but certainly as they formed in the 70s, they had to be influenced by 70s music as the 80s didn't exist yet.

So there's a very hazy area here that, honestly, I don't care to really argue about. The Beatles formed in Liverpool in 1960. Does that mean they just missed being a 50s band?

Actually, listen to their early songs. They sounded very much like the rock groups from the 50s. Thank you Bill Haley, Jerry Lee and others. A lot of early 60s music had 50s influence. Hell, some music today has 50s influence.

When you start pigeon holing groups and artists who've had long careers into certain time slots, you tend to run into trouble.

In general, prog rock WAS a 70s thing even though it existed long before and long after. And it went on long enough and became stale enough that eventually I just got tired of the new stuff. It just didn't do it for me, for whatever reason.