Yet more censorship at NSS

[soulkraka]

You mean like the profanity censorship going on here? Or banning members like Sicklecell666?

are you serious???

btw, whats up man?

[Markleford]

Like admins have a right to do whatever the fcuk they like. THEY DON'T.

Again, that's a common misconception.

They *can* do whatever they want. Running the server and providing bandwidth gives them that right.

It's just the sad truth. Maybe it's not how you think it *should* be, but there it is all the same.

But it's your right to say, "Fcuk this noise, I'm out of here." It's also your right to start up your own forum and run it however you want.

I also think that NSS is too heavy-handed, but I admit that it *is* entirely within their right to run their forum how they'd like.

- m

[start/select]

Forums that put straight jackets around their members quickly start to fail.

You mean like the profanity censorship going on here? Or banning members like Sicklecell666?

that was the creep posting pics of dead hurricane katrina victims, right? i'm sorry, i don't care what anyone's views on censorship are, that kind of crap is NOT what i come to this forum for.

[androidlove]

sickle ASKED to be banned (some sort of protest thing?)
mods are gods. you have no legal recourse

[Amberience]

Like admins have a right to do whatever the fcuk they like. THEY DON'T.

Again, that's a common misconception.

They *can* do whatever they want. Running the server and providing bandwidth gives them that right.

It's just the sad truth. Maybe it's not how you think it *should* be, but there it is all the same.

But it's your right to say, "Fcuk this noise, I'm out of here." It's also your right to start up your own forum and run it however you want.

I also think that NSS is too heavy-handed, but I admit that it *is* entirely within their right to run their forum how they'd like.

- m

If this were the real world, people would encourage each other to fight against injustice. That doesn't happen on the internet, but it should.

[Failed Muso]

I'm afraid Markleford has a point. I own a forum (see signature) and I guess I have absolute power as to what goes on in there.

I have never had to delete any post (except the odd spam message), but maybe it's because it's not a heavily used forum and is focused on a single subject matter. But nevertheless, I could slice and dice my way thru' the place, censoring anything that I didn't like, without having to answer to anyone.

Is that right tho' ? IMHO, no. I would hope that the users of my forum respect my liberal attitude and don't abuse the place because of it.

The users of my forum, KvR, NSS and the rest, do not pay for the use of that place. They are invited to join, so long as they abide by the rules. The rules can be whatever the admins decide and they can dictate and carry out any form of censorship they feel necessary. Users can take it or leave it. If they take it, the forum will carry on in the same, elitist way. If they leave it, the forum will dry up, only for someone else to come along and do the same.

It's the democracy of the Internet

Now everyone has the chance to wield power and some abuse that fact.

IMO, NSS is a commercial forum in the guise of a community forum. A place for developers who earn a living from their work to garner opinions about their output, a place for them to influence customers and promote sales. Nothing wrong with that unless you believe it is a community forum and try and use it as such. Steve has found out that a single "plug" about his range of products has cost him a place to share his infinite knowledge and experience. I know Steve well, I know his plans and know that this is probably a minor issue. But the treatment of him by his "friends" has been sad to say the least. It seems quite clear now that NSS is their to serve the larger developers who use it as a disguise for advertising and not the community.

Some might say that he should just pay for a banner. But Steve is one man, on his own. No big business model, no employees, no capital except his skills. He doesn't have the best part of $1000 knocking around. He survives from getting exposure through his reputation, his own site, sites like mine where he advertises for free and reviews in magazines like SOS (Check out the HS review in October's issue). A single post on NSS is not going to harm the sales of GPO or any other advertiser on there. GPO sells for around $250, IIRC, Hollow Sun CD's are $55. There is the difference and why I feel NSS has gone overboard. But like many have said, if you don't like it, you don't have to use it.

KvR seems to strike a better balance. Less sword wielding and more community. Sure, it gets it's fair share of innappropriate postings, but the rules are more about creating a sense of community and free opinions. For a large proportion of the time it works very well.

[John Vulich]

You mean like the profanity censorship going on here? Or banning members like Sicklecell666?

are you serious???

btw, whats up man?

Got back from Tahoe last week. And you? How is Japan?

[ResonantOrder]

But what about those of us who pay for a product? I asked the dealer if there was any support for EWQLSO when I bought it, and he said that they had their own forum. I thought that was cool, and bought it. I should have investigated it more. The forum link takes me to the NSS forum. I've been around a while and have never gone to that site because of all the negativity I've read here on KVR. Had I known that the only forum they support is the NSS forum, I wouldn't have bought the product.

To add insult to injury, the forum wouldn't even let me register using my yahoo account. My ISP has switched hands four times since I signed on (there is only one broad band company here) and the email system has been borked for over a year with no fix in site. My ISP email simply will not work or my messages get routed to someone else's box.

Blah. I was looking for a community to discuss orchestral sample cds, and maybe learn something.

I won't make the mistake of buying from EW again.

[emdot_ambient]

GodKings will out.

[Failed Muso]

But what about those of us who pay for a product? I asked the dealer if there was any support for EWQLSO when I bought it, and he said that they had their own forum. I thought that was cool, and bought it. I should have investigated it more. The forum link takes me to the NSS forum. I've been around a while and have never gone to that site because of all the negativity I've read here on KVR. Had I known that the only forum they support is the NSS forum, I wouldn't have bought the product.

To add insult to injury, the forum wouldn't even let me register using my yahoo account. My ISP has switched hands four times since I signed on (there is only one broad band company here) and the email system has been borked for over a year with no fix in site. My ISP email simply will not work or my messages get routed to someone else's box.

Blah. I was looking for a community to discuss orchestral sample cds, and maybe learn something.

I won't make the mistake of buying from EW again.

Interesting post, RO, and one that seems to re-inforce the commercial nature of NSS.

KvR seems a much better place for impartial advice and debate on your future requirements

[ResonantOrder]

Forums that put straight jackets around their members quickly start to fail.

If NSS are buggering it up with censorship, then just watch - they'll shrink or go down the tubes.

As phz says, and I agree with him, at KvR we're moderate-ors.

btw does NSS have any competitor sites of a similar high quality?

Not a direct competitor as they are certainly not nearly as big but http://www.vi-control.net/forum/forum.php have been made by NSS outcast and is slowly growing. No one has been banned there yet AFAIK.

Thanks for the link.

[Markleford]

IMO, NSS is a commercial forum in the guise of a community forum.

I agree with you there.

A single post on NSS is not going to harm the sales of GPO or any other advertiser on there. GPO sells for around $250, IIRC, Hollow Sun CD's are $55.

Is there a dollar value to be placed on "Big Overlord Vendors" versus "Small Oppressed Vendors"?

East West Sounds Online have products in the range of *thousands* of dollars, yet themselves came in conflict with the NSS rules. They didn't like the result, so they created their own forum. As a result of their policy, NSS lost hosting and advertising dollars from EWSO *and* lost a bit of their user traffic that no longer went there for product support.

If your beef is against NSS policy, you really shouldn't blame those vendors that *do* pay their dues and "play the game". Once you do realise that it's a commercial forum, it makes sense. Hate the rules, not those who abide by then.

KvR seems to strike a better balance.

I like to think so, too.

Sure, it gets it's fair share of innappropriate postings, but the rules are more about creating a sense of community and free opinions. For a large proportion of the time it works very well.

Fortunately, we're allowed to supplement our information intake with any number of sites that we want! Anybody that restricts themselves to only one source of news or information, no matter what the subject matter, is doing themselves a disservice.

My biggest concern is that I do need support on Garritan products. If I take enough umbrage with NSS policy, I have to make a choice whether to speak up about it or not. Instead, I just generally diffuse the issue by getting my "free speech" on KVR and using NSS for Garritan support. And really, the Garritan community is (generally) a good one, anyway. And Eric/spectrum is there. And I've met Garth from Chicken Systems, who doesn't seem like an Evil Overlord either, despite being a dues-paying NSS vendor.

- m

[ResonantOrder]

First I was really confused when I read Markleford's post.

The link inside the instrument, eventhough it's fully updated, takes me to the NSS forum. The front page of the EW site has a link to the 'official' forum on the side. I had seen the link, but assumed that it was the same forum since that is where the instrument took me.

Thanks Markleford.

[Failed Muso]

Is there a dollar value to be placed on "Big Overlord Vendors" versus "Small Oppressed Vendors"?

The point I was trying to make was the difference between the size of company and market value of their products.

East West Sounds Online have products in the range of *thousands* of dollars, yet themselves came in conflict with the NSS rules. They didn't like the result, so they created their own forum. As a result of their policy, NSS lost hosting and advertising dollars from EWSO *and* lost a bit of their user traffic that no longer went there for product support.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of this, but am not surprised by it either.

If your beef is against NSS policy, you really shouldn't blame those vendors that *do* pay their dues and "play the game". Once you do realise that it's a commercial forum, it makes sense. Hate the rules, not those who abide by then.

I have nothing personal against any of the "paying" developers, in fact I have had very pleasant dealings with Francis at Bela D in the past and hope they continue, and GPO is undeniably good stuff.

Who owns and runs NSS tho' ? Is it independent or is it owned and run by those developers we have just mentioned ? Did I hear that Mr Garritan owns all or part of NSS ? If that is the case, surely NSS cannot claim to be a community "for all" ?

Just something to mull over...

Surely, every developer should run independent support sites/forums for their products. Given that free forums are two a penny today, this can't be too much of a problem ?

Even Steve @ HS has his own forum for support. He uses Proboards, like me, which is free and has very unobtrusive ads.

At the end of it all, I just felt that NSS were being unfair to a small developer, who has more experience than the lot of them put together, and is well respected in the industry all over the world. Considering Steve's heritage and experience, and the fact that Hollow Sun is a tiny venture compared to many of the others on there, a single post hardly warranted the action that was taken.

And as I have been writing this, a voice of reason has spoken at NSS

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/sho ... stcount=54

Bravo

[foulaire]

Blah. I was looking for a community to discuss orchestral sample cds, and maybe learn something.

I won't make the mistake of buying from EW again.

E/W quit NSS. They now have their own forum.
Its much better.

http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/