Considering a move from Sonar to Cubase..

[n-04:05:03:05:7]

Yep, I can't believe a pro app like Sonar wouldn't work great at low latencies with decent hardware.

I'm a Cubase SX user btw and never liked Sonar but it's obviously a great program, not sure it would be worth 750 EUR to switch, especially if you're used to the Sonar workflow.
Goodluck.

[WillieJenkins]

Sonar is always playing catchup to Cubase.

Both hosts are playing catchup to each other in certain aspects. I don't think Cubase SX has a 64-bit mix engine, or the universal bus architecture yet. Also, not sure if the quality of the effects/instruments can compete with the rgc:Audio / Ultrafunk / Voxengo thing Cake has going right now.
Bounce -> Archive was freeze before freezing was a "must have".

That said, Sonar has borrowed heavily from all other hosts, I'm not denying that, its not just as lopsided as it may seem.

Now, Sonar wins in the following categories:
1. No dongle
2. Effecient use of system resources
3. Quicker load time
4. Easy to use, especially for newbies

Cubase wins with these:
1. Excellent VST support
2. Innovative and useful technology (Audio Warp, Time Warp, LM7), real-time editing/playback.

Not sure those were "innovative" as I don't think cubase originated that technology. But useful, probably yes.

3. You can easily move to Nuendo, as the UI is 99.1% identical.
4. Excellent third-party vendor support. Cubase is used as a reference for the testing and training of so many products.
5. Native Mackie control surface support w/o the need for patches

Not sure what this means, but Cakewalk4/5 is one of only three hosts that actually supports the Mackie Control C4 last I heard. Not only that the MackieControl.ini file is completely configurable by the user in a pretty cool way. I've not seen any other host that can customize the MCU like Sonar can

I'm sure I missed something, and I'm not claiming to be a pro at either of these. In the end, all that matters is how much you like the product. Even with Sonar 5's new features, I still feel much more comfortable knowing that Yamaha is behind Steinberg, and will hopefully apply their guru knowledge to improving it.

On the other hand, Cakewalk is the only host-making company that is not owned by some large company.

Roland owns a portion of Cakewalk, hence V-Vocal (based on variphrase technology) being included in Sonar 5. Its all a matter of perspective. I'm happy Cake is mostly owned by themselves, this ensures they can do what they want to do, and with their intelligent acquisition of some of the top software companies out there, I'm confident in their ability to grow as a company


Overall tho, great post

Je me souviens.

[WillieJenkins]

Yep, I can't believe a pro app like Sonar wouldn't work great at low latencies with decent hardware.

I'm a Cubase SX user btw and never liked Sonar but it's obviously a great program, not sure it would be worth 750 EUR to switch, especially if you're used to the Sonar workflow.
Goodluck.

Echo Layla24 @ 2.8ms WDM driver ROCK solid

[WilliamK]

ASIO and Sonar 4 at least,was very ackward, i think people who can get it to work shoud be given a medal.

What is 'awkward' about it? ASIO has worked 'out of the box' on at least three or four different DAW setups of mine since it went into Sonar 2.2

I think he is feeling 'awkward' now... (sorry, couldn't resist the joke)

As with any company, sometimes things don't go as they planed. But I bet that everybody that had ASIO problems got good support and had all problems fixed? At least I hope so.

Wk

[LijEyasu]

It's okay to be biased and like Sonar. It's a nice product.

Et non, je ne suis pas Quebecois...mais j'aime les Quebecois

Salut LijEyasu! Thanks for the summary. Cubase workflow killed me. I experienced a major headache trying to use Cubase not least being stability and unintuitive functionality. Yes I am a long time Sonar user and am therefore biased. Native VST support really is not an issue in S4 and is now gone woth S5.

Btw

Je me souviens.

Vous etes Quebecois?

[Beardedone]

Hey Beard did you get it yet?? I know you were thinking about it last week.
I saw you in one of my posts about it, I sure hope when you do you find that it is as wonderful as I have found it to be

Hey Stairsteps! Oh Yeah I have V2 big and love it. Amazing pallete of sounds. Brilliant plugin what with William's constant attention and dedication to improvment. I only wich I had the time to to figure how to get past the presets and program myself. It's still beyond me I'm afraid.

Cheers,
Gordon

[Rownin]

The "native" vst support in Sonar 5 still sucks. They just integrated their crappy vst wrapper in de main program. It still doesn't scan vst's properly: you have to manually put settings for pdc, tempo based etc. and you get a long list of plugins. All your work in sorting your plugins in folders is lost that way.

If Cakewalk gets this right the way Cubase has it (or energyXT) maybe I'll switch from Cubase SX to Sonar.
It's beyond me why a 800 dollar host doesn't implement vst support properly. EnergyXT does it for 50 bucks.

In Sonar the audio looping features are better/quicker than in Cubase. But you can do the same with Cubase, perhaps a few mouse clicks more.

For the rest I like the Cubase SX graphics better, it looks more professional. And I find it easier on the eyes. On the other hand you can tweak the GUI of Sonar more than Cubase.

[n-04:05:03:05:7]

Yep, I can't believe a pro app like Sonar wouldn't work great at low latencies with decent hardware.

Echo Layla24 @ 2.8ms WDM driver ROCK solid

Yes!

[JerGoertz]

I've got both Sonar 4PE and Cubase 3SX, and here's my take on how they compare (all subjective, of course):

- Sonar was much more intuitive for me to work with, although it's the sequencer that I learned first, so that probably has a large part to do with it. Everything you need to know about an audio channel can be viewed right there on the track view (i.e., audio FX are shown in the audio track) whereas with Cubase you have to go to the mixer view (AFAIK, I don't claim to be a Cubase expert). With Sonar you can insert a DXi and have it immediately insert the appropriate audio and MIDI tracks into the project; I don't believe this is possible with Cubase.

- Cubase always seemed to have a more responsive interface and to just act "smoother & tighter" in operation. This is surprising to me given that Cubase is a Mac port and Sonar is Windows native.

- Sonar takes much less time to load up, while Cubase always scans your VST folders, which can be quite time consuming. Not actually a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but worth noting. I hope that Sonar's "native VST support" won't cause this behavior as well.

- Sonar: No dongle. This is huge for me, as I find needing to remember to use this & having it tie up a USB port extremely annoying.

Drum map editors: Cubase's seems more refined (e.g. different quantize values for individual lanes).

There are probably a few other differences that I've noticed in the past but am not remembering at the moment.

[Beardedone]

It's okay to be biased and like Sonar. It's a nice product.

Et non, je ne suis pas Quebecois...mais j'aime les Quebecois


Beardedone wrote:
Salut LijEyasu! Thanks for the summary. Cubase workflow killed me. I experienced a major headache trying to use Cubase not least being stability and unintuitive functionality. Yes I am a long time Sonar user and am therefore biased. Native VST support really is not an issue in S4 and is now gone woth S5.

Btw Quote:
Je me souviens.

Vous etes Quebecois?

I asked because "Je me Souviens" is the slogan on the Quebec license plate/tag.

[Stairsteps]

Theres one feature Cubases dont have yet and never will and thats the fact that the new Sonar5 actually makes all your Vstis and Dxis sound better.

Now go run home now and keep comparing it all boils down to SOUND , also no way cubase can compete with sonar5, esp with additions like V-Voice, Perfect Space, Sfz, rgc and thats just a few, how bout the new midi features and the new Alias factor, or the brand new 64bit mixing engine.

yeah dream on Cubase all I can say is If you owned Sonar5 and Cubase like I do you could see the VAST difference in QUALITY, I will admit Sonar4 and Cubase were on even ground but the new Sonar5 TOPS MOTU, which I have, Logic also have this CubaseSX dosent even compare, Samplitude, And abletonLive, only host I dont own is T2.
keep grasping for straws and do yourself a favor stop fooling yourself and dump whatever your using just Demo Sonar5 if they have one and youll soon be singing the praises.

Sonar was already awarded more awards than any other host last year and thats before the advent of Sonar5 which is leaps and bounds above Sonar 4 even. sorry for the biased opinion but I wasted money on alot of hjosts I will only tell you what works best for me compared to others Ive tried not HEARSAY.

[diverdee]

sonar still has limited rewire functionality?
just first 16 devices/channels?
shame.

[LijEyasu]

Yes, I know, that's why I said it I noticed that you were in Quebec.

It's okay to be biased and like Sonar. It's a nice product.

Et non, je ne suis pas Quebecois...mais j'aime les Quebecois


Beardedone wrote:
Salut LijEyasu! Thanks for the summary. Cubase workflow killed me. I experienced a major headache trying to use Cubase not least being stability and unintuitive functionality. Yes I am a long time Sonar user and am therefore biased. Native VST support really is not an issue in S4 and is now gone woth S5.

Btw Quote:
Je me souviens.

Vous etes Quebecois?

I asked because "Je me Souviens" is the slogan on the Quebec license plate/tag.

[ResonantOrder]

Sonar's user base has gone up during the past couple of years. Cubase users have fallen off dramatically. Unless Cubase can actually get their progs to reliably sync audio and midi, I don't see them lasting long.

I switched from sonar 3 to SX3, and went right back to sonar 4. I'm waiting on 5 to arrive right now.

If you feel like your having trouble with Sonar, be sure to pick up the Sonar 4 power book to help establish a good workflow. That book rawks.

The best thing a person can do is stick with the best host you can find, and then learn how to operate it efficiently. You wouldn't get much eating done if you had to plot the trajectory of a fork every time you took a bite, and you won't get much written if you have to crack a manual or wonder what a button does if your trying to create.

[ResonantOrder]

sonar still has limited rewire functionality?
just first 16 devices/channels?
shame.

Unfortunately this is true for Reason. There is a way to get around it by using the combinators. As far as I know, all other progs aren't limited.