I am turning into a theory slut

[nuffink]

Average musician turns architect.

There seems to be something biting your ass....care to share what it is? Who's "good" in your opinion and who's "bad"? Are you a failed musician with a bee in his bonnet? somethings eating you to make such pointless sweeping claims.

I was ignorant and then I learned so I can tell which is the superior state. You, by your own admission, have only ever been ignorant so you can't.

[Reverse Engineer]

Average musician turns architect.

There seems to be something biting your ass....care to share what it is? Who's "good" in your opinion and who's "bad"? Are you a failed musician with a bee in his bonnet? somethings eating you to make such pointless sweeping claims.

I was ignorant and then I learned so I can tell which is the superior state. You, by your own admission, have only ever been ignorant so you can't.

Well, if my ignorance leads me to like who i like and do what i do, forever i shall remain in this blissful state. Of course, through time i will learn some more by default, as one does, and maybe i'll become jaded too, but i'll let that happen naturally as there's no point rushing towards the end of enjoyment and into the wall which is made of rules and protocol.

[xander]

Learning music theory is simply like learning a new language -- a set of tools that allows you to communicate better in the medium of musical instruments.

For a bunch of f**king three-chord thrashers, you don't need to write down much -- not even a guitar tab, since most lab rats can figure it out.

If you want to write down a complex piece of music and then communicate the exact structure to someone else, then knowing musical theory and notation helps you do this.

If you come up with a melody or a song idea in your head, you can jot it down quickly, or share the idea and collab if you wish.

Knowing music theory adds dimension to your music you'd take years to discover otherwise.

It's a tool as well as a language. Nothing more or less. Anyone who's scared of learning theory to enhance their musical abilities is the same moron who'd be scared of things like the Christmas Grinch and the little dwarves who live under your bed.

[nuffink]

Well, if my ignorance leads me to like who i like and do what i do, forever i shall remain in this blissful state. Of course, through time i will learn some more by default, as one does, and maybe i'll become jaded too, but i'll let that happen naturally as there's no point rushing towards the end of enjoyment and into the wall which is made of rules and protocol.

That's utterly reasonable. Boasting about how proud you are of how little you know, ain't.

[nuffink]

...and by the way. Theory isn't rules. It's more like a map of possibilities. Without it you're unlikely ever to get out of a very small cul-de-sac.

[xander]

...and by the way. Theory isn't rules. It's more like a map of possibilities. Without it you're unlikely ever to get out of a very small cul-de-sac.

Nuffink -- perhaps to some, Chordspace is some scary musical voodoo...

[Lord Snarebottom]

...and by the way. Theory isn't rules. It's more like a map of possibilities. Without it you're unlikely ever to get out of a very small cul-de-sac.

Isn't that a rule, in and of itself?

I'm sure glad you said "unlikely" instead of "impossible".

[Reverse Engineer]

Well, if my ignorance leads me to like who i like and do what i do, forever i shall remain in this blissful state. Of course, through time i will learn some more by default, as one does, and maybe i'll become jaded too, but i'll let that happen naturally as there's no point rushing towards the end of enjoyment and into the wall which is made of rules and protocol.

That's utterly reasonable. Boasting about how proud you are of how little you know, ain't.

It's not about pride, it's about doing what i want. If i ever reach a point where i can't do what i want because it's beyond my abilities (which aren't much as things stand, but like i said...what I want,) then without a doubt, it's me who loses. Liam howlett is classicaly trained, as of late he makes guff music...the manic street preachers weren't trained at all, not even badly, they made a handful of excellent albums (but turned shit when they did learn more......odd one eh.) Like i said, you do your thing with all your knowledge and insight, and i'll do mine in "proud" ignorance.

[Lord Snarebottom]

...and by the way. Theory isn't rules. It's more like a map of possibilities. Without it you're unlikely ever to get out of a very small cul-de-sac.

Nuffink -- perhaps to some, Chordspace is some scary musical voodoo...

I've already installed it!

Now let's see what it says! Maybe Jeffrey Holder will rise from the grave and say "Sevemup, the uncola!"

[nuffink]

...and by the way. Theory isn't rules. It's more like a map of possibilities. Without it you're unlikely ever to get out of a very small cul-de-sac.

Nuffink -- perhaps to some, Chordspace is some scary musical voodoo...

I don't want it to be.

I know why theory scares people. You only have to listen to most prog rock to realise that knowledge of theory sounds like a recipe for boring music.
I think that this is due to the learning process not the acquisition of knowledge.
There is something wonderful about naive music which the process of learning sometimes erodes. Most pop groups don't get better once they've been around a while.
But.
Naive musicians make the same easy harmonic choices all the time. It's why they date so fast.

I developed ChordSpace in part to speed the learning process so some of that wonder remains.

Punk with f**ked up jazz harmonies? I'd love it.

[The Chase]

I really dont understand how you cant use theory, unless you purposely choose notes that sound bad together and throw darts at 5 lines to make up your beats.

[The Chase]

When i took my music theory class, i didnt learn ANYthing - just the names of shit I already knew.

But then again I grew up listening to classical music. My parents consistantly Played it next to my crib when I was a baby sleeping. It was always on in the background of my childhood. A lot of things are programmed into me because of this.

Before my music theory class I simply thought that some notes didnt sound good together or in a certain sequence. I've always knew how, theory taught me why.

[Lord Snarebottom]

Well, this Chordspace thing looks interesting. This is a tool I'd have loved to have around for a long time now. And once you've had your fill, you can play a new game I'm developing using the hexagonal layout as maps in Dungeons & Dragqueens - ChordSpace Edition®!

[the_nihilist]

Hi the_nihilist,

I enjoyed reading your post, it reminds me a bit of myself (I'm still learning theory), but I'm not quite at the level you are by the looks of things..

I know what inversions are, and vaguely remember what suspensions are, but am still confused about how one stays in a single mode - Eg C-Major uses all the white keys, but depending on which notes you play determines the mode?

Also, coz you seem to be more advanced, would you like to share any theory notes you made? (Or any books/other resources you found useful)

Anyways, all the best & keep on learning!

Sure.

It's actually really simple. All you have to do is match the appropriate mode to the chord that the progression resolves to.

For example, a I-IV-V-I progression in C would resolve into the C major chord. Since this chords root note is C, it would be in ionian.

Where alot of people get confused is that as you move down the white keys switching "modes", you're also switching the key you're playing in. So while you ARE playing in say... phrygian when you play all the white keys starting from E on your keyboard, you're playing E phrygian.

To play in C phrygian, you'd have to use C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab and Bb. The good thing is that this is also the Ab major scale(!), so you can just make a chord progression that resolves on the iii of that scale and treat it as C phrygian.

As for books and notes, I've gone through a couple of textbooks for basic theory:

Music: Language and Fundamentals by Ronald J. Gretz
Elementary Rudiments of Music by Barbara Wharram

Both have been pretty good, and I find that actually having excercises to do really improved my knowledge of how things were supposed to work. Textbooks might not be to glamourous, but if you work through them, they are rewarding.

For what I'm learning now, I'm reading a book called Intermediate Harmony by Grace Vandendool. I skipped the first book (it covered mostly stuff I learned through discussion with other musicians, online, etc...), so I have a little gap in my knowledge, but I'm finding this a really damn fun book to work through.

Anyways, good luck.

[xander]

...and by the way. Theory isn't rules. It's more like a map of possibilities. Without it you're unlikely ever to get out of a very small cul-de-sac.

Nuffink -- perhaps to some, Chordspace is some scary musical voodoo...

I don't want it to be.

I know why theory scares people. You only have to listen to most prog rock to realise that knowledge of theory sounds like a recipe for boring music.
I think that this is due to the learning process not the acquisition of knowledge.
There is something wonderful about naive music which the process of learning sometimes erodes. Most pop groups don't get better once they've been around a while.
But.
Naive musicians make the same easy harmonic choices all the time. It's why they date so fast.

I developed ChordSpace in part to speed the learning process so some of that wonder remains.

Quite well said actually

Punk with f**ked up jazz harmonies? I'd love it.

So you like my music then...

Punk with f**ked up jazz...